Help talk:Redirect

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Contents 1 Redirect/Piped link policy? 2 Clarification suggestion 3 Forum:Redirections to categories 4 Forum:Categorizing redirects 5 Forum:Episode redirects 6 Redirects/Obsolete "Help" 7 Forum:New redirect feature

[edit] Redirect/Piped link policy?

I think it is time to reconsider our policy regarding redirects and piped links. In the past, we often deleted unused redirects (Immediate deletion exception #1), although the deletion policy as well as other pages at the same time state that deletion should occur "only if the problems they cause outweigh their advantages".

At the same time, sometimes piped links are used that simply don't make much sense, probably because a redirect using the same titles would have been deleted immediately. A good example for this is [[Tarquin's homeworld|Tarquin's people]] on Delphic Expanse. Should there ever be an article about Tarquin's people, there's no easy way to find this piped link and change it to the correct target. Using a redirect from Tarquin's people to Tarquin's homeworld would be much better in this case.

I think we should allow more redirects than we do now. Immediate deletion should be reserved for redirects that absolutely don't make sense, are offensive (as described on Help:Redirect) or are misspellings. On the other hand, piped links should be restricted to variants of the title/object (such as: Enterprise, Enterprise-D, NCC-1701-D, ...). What do you think? -- Cid Highwind 11:34, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

Good point: an example I may want to introduce into the discussion is MA/en's policy for early history, in MA/de we have redirects for every century, so that if we might consider to split the page we don't have to search every post; misspellings are indeed to be deleted, that is also why I don't understand the reason to keep Geordi La Forge -- Kobi - (Talk) 11:56, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

As you can see from Memory Alpha:Pages for immediate deletion, I have been trying to support the retention of useful redirects. Perhaps we should concentrate on expanding the Memory Alpha:List of useful redirects -- make it list every redirect that exists, or has been "patrolled" -- basically create a manifesto of redirects someone has preferred to keep at some point -- and to open discussion if anyone thinks a redirect or series of redirects is inappropriate. -- Captain Mike K. Bartel^talk 18:19, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Clarification suggestion

I'd like to clarify policy by adding the following to the "delete conditions":

1. The redirect uses improper capitalization and another redirect with the same name, but proper capitalization, exists.

This was just discussed regarding Surplus depot Zed-15 and Surplus Depot Zed-15. While the redirect itself seems useful, two of them probably aren't. Objections? -- Cid Highwind 23:24, 6 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Make it so ;-) --Memory 00:01, 14 Aug 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Forum:Redirections to categories

I just saw that articles are now redirected to a category (List of Ferengi, Andorians...) Is there a way to follow automatically the new entries to that list on the category page, because on MA-fr (and probably on the other MA versions), all these articles were not written (4 articles in the Andorians cat and 16 in the Ferengis cat for the moment), that's why I watched for the article to check new entries, but watching for a category only shows the changes in the opening text not the entries that are added. - Philoust123 19:59, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

For some list categories, we have "lists of unwritten articles" here: Memory Alpha:Requested articles. This at least allows you to check for new articles that were on these lists before, although it won't work for articles that are created without being listed there. -- Cid Highwind 20:05, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Forum:Categorizing redirects

Please note that it is now possible to categorize redirects, something which wasn't possible in the past and which led to the creation of some pages that might now be superfluous. It was brought to my attention by Renegade, and I already added a comment to a recent discussion on Talk:Aurora (starship). Basically, if the only reason for a page to exist is to have a page to categorize, we can now have a categorized redirect instead.

Another recent example is Alpha Centauri, where apparently articles about the "star", the "system" and the "colony" were merged into one. If this combined page stays, we should at least categorize some of the remaining redirects so that, for example, a link to the colony can still be found on Category:Colonies. -- Cid Highwind 09:20, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Another example, where I discovered this new use (again from Renegade) was J. Michael Bingham, which redirects to D.C. Fontana (one of her pseudonyms, and makes more sense to have it categorized separately because there is credit under that name, etc, etc). But I agree with Cid's comments, and just wanted to point this one out. -- Sulfur 09:49, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Forum:Episode redirects

Quick question:

I have been deleting the episode redirects created by Bjorn9800991 because I thought they weren't necessary. All of these have been "lower-case" redirects: basically created to avoid having to hit the shift button to capitalize letters when entering a title in the search engine. So, this is why I've been deleting them (that, and I thought it was decided to do so). To quote this page, however, we should avoid deleting redirects if:

Someone finds them useful. Hint: If someone says they find a redirect useful, they probably do. You might not find it useful - this is not because the other person is a liar, but because you browse Memory Alpha in different ways.

So, I bring it up for discussion here, and my question is: are these redirects necessary? They're obviously useful to at least one user, but are they necessary for our goals here or are they just redundant and unneeded? Speaketh! --From Andoria with Love 01:30, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Since I surmise that you want a number of opinions on this, I personally don't use lower-case titles when I enter episode titles, I enter the title as it should be. So, personally, I see no need (for myself) to need these redirects, but if a number of people do use them, by all means keep them. - Enzo Aquarius 01:32, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Even without the redirect, typing in lower case still brings up the episode article at the top of the search list. As an example, here is the result for typing "in the pale moonlight", or "the naked now". As far as I can see, these are not useful redirects, as you get just as good a result without them. --OuroborosCobra ^talk 01:34, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

• Re:Enzo -- opinion noted, needed, and much appreciated. Thank you. :)
• Re:Cobra -- That was my issue, as well, but some "lower-case" titles (such as "change of heart" and the other redirects that were created) don't redirect to the episodes, they go to the search page. So would keeping those that don't redirect automatically be so bad? --From Andoria with Love 01:43, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Um, both of the ones I listed go to the search page, just like "change of heart". My point was that the very first item listed is the episode page. --OuroborosCobra ^talk 01:50, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

My thoughts when creating the redirects was that it would save time 'cause somtimes I search quickly and is forgetting the capitalized letters. One thing I don't understand is why they have to be deleted. Is it taking so much space in the database that it becomes anoying? Do they disturb anyone or why do they have to be deleted? Give me a good reason and don't just say "They are redundent" or "unneeded". To quote the before mentioned page "Alternate capitalizations: Photon Torpedo redirects to Photon torpedo". As I precive it my redirects were totaly in line with the policy that has been layed out. bjorn98009_91 06:52, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

• Re:Cobra - sorry, I misread you. Ignore me then.
• Re:Bjorn9800991 - Glad to see you've joined in. :) Anyway, it is because your redirects don't actually appear to be harming anything but may be perceived as unnecessary that I've started this discussion – I felt they were unnecessary because, as Cobra states, when they're entered into the search field, the first link that pops up in the search is the page you're looking for. Other redirects have been deleted for similar reasons, so I figured it was in agreement that such redirects were not needed. It's not that they were annoying or taking up space; there is no harm in keeping them. It was about necessity – the redirects did not seem necessary, so they got turfed. Since, however, at least one person finds use for them, then they are at least necessary to that one person. As per policy, there really shouldn't be a reason for them to go, I just wanted to make sure everyone was on the same page as I am. So far, one person does not have a problem with keeping these redirects while another finds them useless for the reasons I stated above.
• Wow, that was a lot of rambling on my part – I hope you understood it all... if so, perhaps you could explain it to me one day. ;) --From Andoria with Love 18:03, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

One thing I'd like to note... if we have them in semi-mixed case (as they have been put into already), then should we not have them in every mix of case possible so as to cover all eventualities of people typing it in and wanting to go directly to the page? -- Sulfur 18:09, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Sorry for the delay. I have thought about it and I can accept that the redirects will be removed if no other person finds them useful.– bjorn98009_91 19:00, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Redirects/Obsolete "Help"

Rather than creating a redirect, fix the link. Edit the page and change Genesis Cave to Genesis cave. Just like you would create or edit any other link. --Alan del Beccio 06:40, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your comment. It seems to me that Genesis Cave is a proper noun, so that adding a link to Genesis cave would be a mistake. I certainly do know how to make links--take a look at my contributions if you are wondering--so why would go thru the trouble of making a redirect if I didn't think it was necessary? As for 46a, a redirect which you also deleted, when I type 46a into the search box I get nothing (not even pages that have 46a on them), so it seemed like an obvious use for a redirect.

In doing these things, I was not just making redirects because I have a "fetish" as you said in one of your deletion comments but based on the page Help:Redirect, which states in part that redirects are to be used for "alternate capitalization" and "aided writing." I was trying to make Memory Alpha better to use.

When you delete something, is it not a matter of ettiqute to make a note on the talk page and wait to see what happens before you delete it? That way people can object before you unceromoniously delete things that others are working on. --Chris Leslie 09:50, 19 March 2007

If Genesis Cave is the proper name then the page should be moved there rather than redirected to the improper name. Our redirect help page is completely out of date, since that was written prior to M/A's affiliation with wikia.com, and as such, the use of Alternate Capitalization and for the most part Misspellings (unless it was an alternate spelling) are now unnecessary, and if they so seem necessary, as alternate usage of the same term, then we also have pages for placing those redirects, a concept which is more often abused than strategically used. In response to 46a, the logical search would be Regulation 46A, as cited on the page it is located on and "regulation 46a" , that redirect is useful. --Alan del Beccio 13:58, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Also, I prefer to keep discussions on the original page that they were started on. Thank you. --Alan del Beccio 14:00, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

For what it's worth, though, Deletion policy states that "Redirects are immediate deletion candidates only in cases described in Help:Redirect", which doesn't seem to be the case with alternate capitalization. If it isn't harmful, don't delete. -- Cid Highwind 14:43, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Just because it hasn't changed in several years doesn't automatically mean it's out of date - it may have been reviewed a number of times in that period and found to require no changes. I have to disagree that "many of those points are no longer up to date". Even the alternate capitalization point, which, as you say, is no longer needed for the search engine, is still valid for redirects from articles in lieu of a piped link. Which of the points aren't valid, and why? -- Renegade54 15:11, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

I already pointed those out. Misspellings have more times than not been automatically deleted or consecutively voted for deletion unless there has been a legitimate reason to have a misspelled link (closed captioning conflicts with script, etc)...in those and other similar cases, it should be properly noted on the "common misspelling" and "useful redirects" pages-- which is rarely used. As I also stated before, more times than not the concept of redirects has been abused rather than strategically used. After "patrolling" most All Articles on this site in the past week or so, I've noted and fixed dozens of piped links because of said abuse, and all around laziness, so I would like to think I have something of a unique perspective in the matter, because in the end, it simply makes it more difficult to keep tabs on where everything is coming from and where everything is going. --Alan del Beccio 15:33, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Whether this "Help" page has been edited in the last 3 years or not, Deletion policy has been. The purpose of some of those edits was to clarify what should be deleted "immediately", and what not, also in relation to redirects. Even if neither of those pages had been edited, it still wouldn't automagically make them "obsolete" - and if different policy pages were contradicting each other (which, honestly, I don't really see here), it still would better to work on those contradictions than to declare one of them "outdated". -- Cid Highwind 15:44, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Memory Alpha:Deletion policy/ Candidates for immediate or speedy deletion/ #1 "Unused redirects" -- that can be read as rather vague, especially when many of these redirects were created (i.e. "46a" mentioned above, which was actually a double redirect, but nonetheless) and then are just left floating around unused. This qualifies for a good portion of this site's redirects, and can be seen as a conflict, especially when people are abusing the redirect process, and not using the related pages that go along with useful redirect/misspellings that I noted above. --Alan del Beccio 15:54, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

I can quote as well:

However, avoid deleting such redirects if: [...] Someone finds them useful. Hint: If someone says they find a redirect useful, they probably do. You might not find it useful – this is not because the other person is a liar, but because you browse Memory Alpha in different ways. (Redirect Help)

I think it's important to note that what you feel is the "logical search" is not necessarily the same way everyone searches. I like many people familiar with searching search for the minimal number of words--the less typing the better. When I search for "The Wrath of Khan," I search for "Khan" and click the right link from the list. Not the logical search for you? You're not me. When I type in something fairly unique, like 46a, I expect it to take me to the page with regulation 46a on it, n o t to get a page that says nothing matched my search! This is just a limitation of the wiki software, which seems to be uncomfortable with short strings, and one that I attempted to address for MA with the adding of redirects, and you deleted without even having the courtesy of finding out if someone else had a valid opinion.

"You destroy what you do not undertand" -- Seven of Nine (but don't search for "7"; that's a null search also, unless someone adds a redirect)

PS the double redirect was looking to a possible future where someone would make a page that was Regulation 46a; in that event, anyone using the redirect 46a would still end up in the right place. Sorry if that offended your sensibilities.

--Chris Leslie 20:50, 20 March 2007

[edit] Forum:New redirect feature

I wanted to bring to everyones attention a new feature which I believe came with the Mediawiki 2.9 upgrade. Redirects can now be sent to specific sections of articles. This is quite useful, actually. For example, take "USS Ambassador". This was a redirect to the entire "Ambassador class" article, when in fact the applicable information is near the end of the article. Instead, you can redirect to that specific section (in this case, "Supplementals").

The code for this is #redirect [[Ambassador class#Supplementals]]

I think we should start making use of this with our other redirects, where it makes sense. --OuroborosCobra ^talk 21:30, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

A large number of our redirect pages as such are already doing that actually... not all, but a lot do. :) -- Sulfur 21:45, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Still, it's nifty. ;) - Adm. Enzo Aquarius...I'm listening 21:47, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Great feature and nice work. Thank you StoryMaster 21:54, 29 May 2007 (UTC)