| | ThylekShran | What's up?
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| | JoshAZ | I was wondering if you could help me sort out this nasty admin business
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| | JoshAZ | Its become so ridiculous
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| | JoshAZ | take a look at Ricimers contribs
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| | JoshAZ | he's made minor edits to 5 pages, and was harassing Mike Sussman
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| 11:32 | ThylekShran | Yeah, so his vote doesn't count anyway
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| | JoshAZ | I think it was Jaf (no relation) who pointed out that we've become so political that any trole can cause chaos
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| | JoshAZ | I'm at loss here
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| 11:33 | ThylekShran | Hold on, lemme reread the policy
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| | JoshAZ | sure
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| | ThylekShran | Assuming I can find it
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| | ThylekShran | Here we go
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| 11:34 | bp0 | hello
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| 11:35 | ThylekShran | Hmm.... okay, so I guess Ricimer can vote... unlike votes for deletion, you don't need to have 20 edits or something
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| | ThylekShran | Hi, bp
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| 11:36 | JoshAZ | I see
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| | ThylekShran | We need something that says a valid reason has to be given for the vote
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| | JoshAZ | There's still an issue here, in that, he's well...
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| | JoshAZ | full of crap
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| | bp0 | there is a discussion about this on the talk page
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| 11:37 | JoshAZ | I know, but I prefer real time, and I know Shran has a good sense of right and wrong
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| | ThylekShran | Someone having different viewpoints doesn't matter here...
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| | JoshAZ | I'm not even sure what the viewpoint is
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| | ThylekShran | I'm assuming he's talking about the Iraq War
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| | JoshAZ | I'm a very political person, but to my knowledge, I've consistantaly kept that out of MA
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| | ThylekShran | Oh
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| | ThylekShran | Oh?
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| 11:38 | JoshAZ | that's what I thought, but I've never stated my opinions on the war on MA
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| | ThylekShran | That's right
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| | ThylekShran | Yeah, I have no idea what he was talking about.
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| | ThylekShran | You hit the nail on the head, he's full of crap.
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| | JoshAZ | and considering, I myself was 51% for, 49% against, and my country has nothing to do with it, I'm really at a loss
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| 11:39 | JoshAZ | Canadian by the way
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| 11:40 | JoshAZ | I'm not even sure what he thinks my opinion (which has changed in the past 2 years) is
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| 11:41 | JoshAZ | maybe its the quote on my user page
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| | ThylekShran | Yeah... I dunno what to say, but I'm asking for his vote to be struck
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| | JoshAZ | the civil rights one from "The Drumhead"
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| | JoshAZ | still, its a long way to go to oppose a nomination
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| 11:42 | bp0 | the arguments are irrelevent in the end, only "oppose" or "support" matter. we can not get into judging how much value a vote has based on how good the argument is. its way to subjective. the arguments only help to persuade others to change their vote and to state an opinion.
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| | JoshAZ | but this is a troll
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| | JoshAZ | he's only made 10 edits, all minor, only to 5 articles
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| | bp0 | if he had just put "oppose" with no argument would it have been rejected?
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| 11:43 | bp0 | there are several "support"s with no argument
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| | JoshAZ | and he harassed another user, who happens to be writer for star trek, that we are very honoured to have
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| 11:44 | JoshAZ | maybe not, but this vote requires us to be unanimous, and he is the lone oposer (not counting Jaf, who I'm sure is just trying to make a point)
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| | ThylekShran | Yes, extremely
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| | ThylekShran | I've made my point known, though
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| | JoshAZ | thanks
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| 11:45 | ThylekShran | bp0: I believe an opposing vote requires an explanation, personally
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| | JoshAZ | and we should require 20+ major edits to articles
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| 11:46 | JoshAZ | the fact is, this is a close community, and everyone in that community agrees with the nomination
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| | JoshAZ | one new user's mischeif is the only opposition
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| 11:47 | ThylekShran | Ricimer basically ousted himself from the community when he harassed another archivist
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| | bp0 | is there any other time this has happened?
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| 11:48 | ThylekShran | Ricimer previously harassed Mike Sussman on his talk page
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| | JoshAZ | the harassment?
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| | JoshAZ | or random trolling?
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| | bp0 | no a troll stopping a nomination
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| | ThylekShran | Can't recall what all he said. Some stupid ant-Voyager/Enterprise crap
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| | ThylekShran | Oh... hmm... you know, I don't recall
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| 11:49 | JoshAZ | I checked the archive
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| | ThylekShran | I don't think so...
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| | JoshAZ | not really
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| | bp0 | if this is one incident, then its not time to change the policy. we cant just change the policy whenever it is inconvienient. whats the point of a policy then>
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| | bp0 | ?
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| | JoshAZ | although, Mike Nobody nominated himself just to feel out public opinion on him
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| 11:50 | JoshAZ | "absolute justice is no justice at all"
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| | ThylekShran | I don't think a policy change is needed, just an added sentence stating that a reasonable excuse needs to be given for opposing.
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| | JoshAZ | - Jean-Luc Picard, 2364
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| 11:52 | bp0 | but what is reasonable? who defines? like I said before, will there be objections to objections?
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| 11:53 | bp0 | right now it is simple and working. and if there is an error in it errs on the side of security.
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| | ThylekShran | Yeah... that's where the problem lies
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| | JoshAZ | consesus
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| | ThylekShran | Basically, the reasons for opposition should relate to the user's work
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| | JoshAZ | we all agree, that that is not a good reason, people just don't want to mess with the policy
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| | bp0 | and will the votes have different values based on how "good" the argument is?
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| 11:54 | ThylekShran | Not his personal life or personal feelings, but with his or her work
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| | bp0 | or ill it stay 1 vote for 1 archivist
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| | bp0 | ill=will
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| 11:55 | JoshAZ | ?? can you rephrase that?
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| | bp0 | you seem kindof power hungry tho, that makes me nervous.
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| | bp0 |
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| | JoshAZ | I just want to help
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| | JoshAZ | especially since Gvsaulan seems to be MIA
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| | JoshAZ | btw, anyone heard from him?
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| 11:56 | ThylekShran | I'm not a big fan of self-nominations, either, but if a user feels he or she can be more helpful as an admin, then so be it
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| | ThylekShran | Gvsualan has left us
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| | ThylekShran | Indefinitely
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| 11:57 | JoshAZ | really!?
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| | ThylekShran | Likely due to the Aholland issues
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| | ThylekShran | Er...
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| | JoshAZ | I see
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| | ThylekShran | He-who-shall-not-be-named issues
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| | ThylekShran | I'm about 95% positive he'll return, though
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| | ThylekShran | When, I couldn't say
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| 12:00 | bp0 | hmm, would "oppose but i cant explain why. i just feel that this isnt the right time." be an invalid objection?
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| | JoshAZ | its too bad
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| | bp0 | ive seen that one before
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| | JoshAZ | not sure
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| 12:01 | ThylekShran | Eh
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| | JoshAZ | but would you except a vandal saying "I oppose, I want less people who can block me?"
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| | ThylekShran | Something tells me I've used that b4
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| | bp0 | ThylekShran: yeah it was you
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| | ThylekShran | Not that one
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| | ThylekShran | bp0: The one you said
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| | ThylekShran | Yeah
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| | bp0 | very crafty of me.
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| | JoshAZ | w/ the Vedek?
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| 12:02 | JoshAZ | once this is sorted out, we should nominate him too
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| | bp0 | "I oppose, I want less people who can block me" is a valid objection. its better than this war one.
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| | JoshAZ | that's a whole other can of worms one
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| | ThylekShran | At least I didn't say it was because he wasn't for the war or because he was gay or something like that
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| | bp0 | but i still maintain that opposition shouldnt require a reason.
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| 12:03 | JoshAZ | how about 20+ major edits to vote, like we have on VfD?
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| | ThylekShran | Your choice.
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| | bp0 | then major edit has to be defined. plus define if 1000 minor edits = 1 major one.
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| | bp0 | but that is a better solution than judging arguments.
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| 12:04 | ThylekShran | I think it's just 20+ edits in general
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| | JoshAZ | or 20 to the main space
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| 12:05 | bp0 | of course, someone could just copy big chunks of the script into 'quotes' sections like that new guy is doing. would those be major edits?
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| 12:07 | ThylekShran | Bah
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| | JoshAZ | come on, this is a small community, we all know who the players are
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| | ThylekShran | I think it's just 20+ edits in general
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| | ThylekShran | Doesn't matter if it's minor or major
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| 12:08 | ThylekShran | In this corner!
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| | ThylekShran | Oh, sorry
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| 12:09 | bp0 | a edit quota would be better.
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| | bp0 | an
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| 12:11 | bp0 | maybe we should c+p this convo onto the talk page and make it on the record
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| | ThylekShran | If you wish...
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| 12:12 | JoshAZ | but bp, yes or no, do you think his objection should be able to prevent me from being admin
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| | JoshAZ | you're still kinda dancing around the main point
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| | JoshAZ | all we are doing is giving justification to trolling
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| 12:13 | bp0 | ThylekShran: would you classify the objection as vandalism?
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| 12:14 | JoshAZ | I've gotta get some sleep
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| | bp0 | If not, then yes the objection should stand.
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| | bp0 | sorry
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| 12:15 | JoshAZ | hopefully this will all get worked out
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| | | <- JoshAZ has disconnected (Remote closed the connection)
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| 12:17 | ThylekShran | bp0: Huh? Sorry, got sidetacked
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| | ThylekShran | bp0: Um... I classify it as disruption, personally.
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| | ThylekShran | And a possible personal attack.
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| | ThylekShran | Although that's... eh
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| 12:18 | bp0 | but is the objection on the same level as "WIKIPEDIA IS COMMUNISM!"?
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| | bp0 | should it have been reverted?
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| 12:21 | ThylekShran | No
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| | bp0 | well then its valid.
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| | bp0 | imo
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| | ThylekShran | But it should be struck out, as it has nothing to do with the voting.
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| | ThylekShran | Short of the "oppose"
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| | bp0 | well the "oppose" is all that matters. thats my position.
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| 12:23 | bp0 | if you think the edit count addition is a good idea, ill support that, but im not sure how effective it will be. 20 minor edits is nto difficult.
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| 12:35 | ThylekShran | Sorry again...
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| | ThylekShran | Yeah, I know, but at least it hints at some community support
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| 12:36 | ThylekShran | A willingness to participate, if you will
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| | ThylekShran | Anyways, I must be off.
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