Talk:Carbon Creek (episode)

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Contents 1 Episode talk page 1.1 Maintenance links 2 Foremother 3 False? 4 Removed text 5 Could velcro be an homage? 6 Inconsistencies 7 Leaving evidence 8 Anachronistic Currency 9 Removed Speculation

[edit] Foremother

The term "second foremother" means "great-grandmother", not "great-great-grandmother as this article originally stated. First, T'Pol clearly states in the episode that her "second foremother" means her "mother's mother's mother", which is clearly her great-grandmother. Second, Trip says "great-grandmother" later in the episode when referring to T'Mir. Third, this is also stated in the episode summary at StarTrek.com Dcorder 06:19, 15 Nov 2005 (UTC)

[edit] False?

Didn't T'pol hint that this story is false at the end of the episode? How does this fit into the canon? --The Rev 19:11, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Since it doesn't go against established canon, it fits fine. And actually, the end of the episode hinted that the events had happened, as T'Pol had the purse her great-grandmother carried while on Earth. Also, this is a Trek-franchise article as opposed to a Trek universe article, meaning it's not covered by the canon policy, although everything within it is considered canon since episodes are canon. Lastly, it's an article for an episode and Memory Alpha covers all episodes, regardless of what we make of them. --From Andoria with Love 23:17, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Removed text

I removed the following text from the Background section:

• Trip Tucker said T'Pol's story about her second foremother, T'Mir, sounded like something from The Twilight Zone. The Twilight Zone originally appeared on CBS, which acquired Paramount Pictures, and on UPN which was the home for this and other Star Trek series. Said comically by Trip, this may be a convoluted reference to all the television/movie studio acquisitions that led to Star Trek becoming part of the CBS family.

I think this is a bit too convoluted, and without a citation, it's pure fantasy; saying something is from the Twilight Zone is a fairly common allusion to something odd or strange. -- Renegade54 18:36, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Actually, there is a line of dialogue in the episode in which Trip states that T'Pol's story sounds like an old episode of The Twilight Zone. The above just failed to point out that the line was taken from dialogue. --From Andoria with Love 04:17, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Wait, nevermind, I just got what you were talking about. Ignore me. --From Andoria with Love 04:17, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Actually, actually, this is very convoluted. At the time this episode aired (I was there, I remember), it was right before they aired the revival series of The Twilight Zone (hosted by Idi Amin I believe). This was blatant advertising hidden within the episode.--Tim Thomason 23:57, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

• In the scene where T'Mir leaves the patent office, a shot of an older design of a US$50.00 bill is shown in her purse. However, in the next scene, there is a clear shot of the back of a modern US$50.00 bill in the change jar.
• The center lines in the streets of Carbon Creek were made with yellow paint, which is historically incorrect -- white center lane markings were used until at least 1963.''

Removed nitpicks. — Morder 08:22, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Could velcro be an homage?

I seem to remember reading somewhere that Gene Roddenberry said no one would wear zippers in the future, as it would be replaced by velcro in all garments. Could the (comical) sale of velcro as her invention by T'Mir in this episode be an homage to that? I mean, she could just as well have gotten a crystal or whatever from the ship and sold that as jewelry, so they clearly chose velcro for a reason. This is speculation, which is why I discuss it here before adding it to the page itself. --Jean seb 21:04, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Although a very intelligently thought out connection, it may be just speculation. You would have to confirm the authenticity to this. However, the Mestral connection is much more clear, which is why it's there. I don't have ENT DVD's though, so if someone does have them, please check up on it, as it is interesting. However, until proof can be established, we can't include it on the article. --Nmajmani 23:34, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Inconsistencies

Why would a vulcan care if she is being dressed in front of another vulcan male???? Also, they mentioned a busted subspace transciever but according to star trek history vulcans had no such technology!!

I'm sure even Vulcans have a bit of modesty. The obvious reason, of course, was to prevent the audience from seeing anything (but keeping a silhouette for us guys to better hold our interest in the scene). Also, what part of "Star Trek history" are you referring? Vulcans were technologically superior to Humans for quite a while; they even developed warp drive hundreds of years before Earth did. Hard to believe they didn't have subspace transceivers back then. Where did you hear they didn't have such technology? --From Andoria with Love 02:55, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Lol. You know I had my source in mind when i wrote it but I can not think of it now. To be honest, I could be wrong. Lets face the real issue here; us seeing a naked vulcan (:P)

-- I would never, under any conceivable circumstances, object to seeing T'Pol (or Jolene) naked.

But a couple of points:

When Mestral says, "I think you have that garment on ... backwards", even the phrasing -- let alone the intonation -- is pure Data.

Great lines: "Where are you going?" "To the ship." "Why?" "This antenna is inadequate. I think I can use a waveform discriminator to enhance it." "Go after dark. You can't risk being followed." "I need to go now. 'I Love Lucy' is on tonight."

-- TPol's great-grandmother and Mestral.

---

Craig Goodrich 68.58.135.168 04:19, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Leaving evidence

I know T'Pol was just recounting a story, but it is inconceivable that the rescue mission would have simply met T'Mir and Stron and then left. They should have gone to the crash site and recovered all the wreckage and the remnants of the (rather disorderly for Vulcans) camp site; it is surprising that nobody came across that stuff during hunting season. I suppose that makes T'Pol's story less believable, but I think she did recount a real incident, but just didn't cover it in all detail. I imagine the Vulcans don't have transporters, otherwise they would have beamed the two survivors up; therefore, they would have had to tractor the heavy stuff up and sent a crew down with green garbage bags (or the equivalent) and collected everything else. T'Mir and Stron would have been able to learn something about Earth's present state of forensics and known what needed to be done to disguise the site.

I have read in other accounts that Sputnik was launched so late that the World Series would have been taking place - game 3 was played the day after Sputnik was launched. Likely, all lower level leagues would have wrapped up long before the Vulcans came into town. In fact, the mission to Earth came after Sputnik was launched and spent some days studying the satellite. GCapp1959 14:56, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Anachronistic Currency

In the scene where the money left for the college fund is found, there is a very clear shot of a fifty dollar bill with a modern design for the visually impaired. That edition of the bill was introduced in 1998, about 40 years after the episode takes place.– The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.182.209.145 (talk • contribs) .

Add that in background info.Vince47 ^talk

Do not add that information in the background info. It's a nitpick and does not belong on memory-alpha. — Morder 07:40, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Whoops. Yeah no. nitpick. Vince47 ^talk

[edit] Removed Speculation

Removed the following:

(he may have been alive and and on hand when the Phoenix first went to warp)--31dot 20:36, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Also removed the following as uncited similarities:

• This episode's opening scenes and premise are very similar to an earlier novel, Strangers from the Sky, which described a pre-first contact crash of a Vulcan scout ship on Earth.
• Mestral mentions that he is an avid fan of the television show I Love Lucy. This is possibly an homage to the fact that Star Trek was first produced by Desilu Productions.--31dot 07:47, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

How would I cite the "Strangers from the Sky" comment? by telling you to read the novel?

it's a book about a Vulcan scoutship that crashes on Earth with only two survivors, a male and a female, who must then try and keep themselves from damaging Earth's society. the premise is quite similar, as is the crash sequence in both stories. -- Captain MKB 13:38, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

The issue isn't whether it's similar or not. (I'm sure it is.) It's whether it was deliberately similar or not, or if some authority made a comment comparing the two. There are many episodes that are similar to books (or even other episodes) and we could fill entire pages with such comparisons. That's why we try to limit such statements to similarities that were deliberate. --31dot 18:12, 26 July 2009 (UTC)