Talk:Day of the Dove (episode)

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Contents 1 Episode talk page 1.1 Maintenance links 2 50 years of conflict 3 Engineering's location 4 Chekov's kill 5 Removed 6 Discussion from Nominations for featured articles 7 Background information 8 Computer Voice 9 Expletive - Yes or No? 10 Only female Klingon appearance 11 Summary 12 nitpicks 13 Leaving the Galaxy? 14 "Just don't put me inside a bulkhead." 15 Background cleaning 16 Phrasing later used by Borg? 17 Also removed

[edit] 50 years of conflict

According to this site, and "Star Trek: Chronology, in "Day of the Dove" McCoy says something about 50 years of conflict with the Klingons. I'd like someone to point this out to me, because so far I have been unable to find the line on my DVD. The exact line (Maybe include a quoits on the Main "Day of the Dove" section), and about how far inot the DVD the line is. If there is truth to the line, then it would mean allot to me. – The preceding unsigned comment was added by TOSrules (talk).

In the TrekBBS this was discussed once, one poster even had access to uncut episodes, but could not detect the line in any of them. Even someone with shooting scripts had none in which the 50 years line could be found. The only evidence that is left is the Chronology and the line in Star Trek VI, where the additional time since "Day of the Dove" was added. -- Kobi 11:20, 29 Aug 2004 (CEST)

[edit] Engineering's location

Thanks to the person who added the details about Engineering's location! Besides the obvious clue of the curved hallways leading to it, it has to be in the saucer section because of the decks Spock says are controlled by Kirk and company. The new cutaway poster of the original Enterprise is simply wrong-- the original blueprints from the 70s are correct. Also, the impulse engines are clearly shown to be at the back of the saucer section in many sources, including Matt Jeffries' original drawings, and these are the engines we see in the forced perspective section. (in "The Doomsday Machine", the only functioning engines on the Constellation are the impulse engines, and Scotty is working on them from the engineering room). The entity could pass through decks and walls and just because it left engineering through one of its walls did not mean that it exited the exterior of the ship in the same location. –Kurt of North Bend

[edit] Chekov's kill

Regarding the Klingon that Chekov hits-- he probably killed him. Chekov hit him in the back with a sword, likely a fatal blow, thereby rendering it unnecessary to clear him from the hallway. Later on, of course, he would have returned to life with the aid of the entity. – The preceding unsigned comment was added by 164.116.80.69 (talk).

[edit] Removed

I removed the line "Many fans consider this the last truly excellent episode of the series." from Background Information as it seems impossibly subjective. I also de-capitalized "bridge" and "engineering" in the summary but now I'm not sure this is actually correct. Is this included in a style guide anywhere? --9er 03:54, 14 Dec 2005 (UTC)

I'm not sure of the relevant policies and guidelines page off the top of my head, but in wikis decapitalization is preferable unless the noun itself is proper, for rooms or departments this applies. -- Captain Mike K. Bartel^talk

[edit] Discussion from Nominations for featured articles

A moderately short but detailed summary with amazing background information. --Defiant Administrator | Talk 17:21, 29 Nov 2005 (UTC)

• Support Good summary length and great meta-Trek info. Logan 5 22:44, 30 Nov 2005 (UTC)
• Weak support. The BG info definitely needs to be organized somehow IMHO, but other than that, it looks good. ----Vedek Dukat ^{Talk | Duty Roster} 18:47, 7 Dec 2005 (UTC)
• Neutral. It's a good article, yes, but virtually every TOS episode has a wealth of background information on its MA page already. I don't oppose this, but I don't want to see every episode featured either. Makon 09:52, 13 Dec 2005 (UTC)
• Strong Support. An extensive (but not too extensive), well-written summary and a great, detailed background section makes this yet another episode to add to our featured article list. :) --From Andoria with Love 13:16, 20 Dec 2005 (UTC)
• Support. Very good, concise, well-written synopsis. I wish every episode article were this well detailed. Featuring this would set an example. --Werideatdusk 03:34, 27 Dec 2005 (UTC)
• Support: Looks to me like it has just the right amount of summary and background info. Perhaps some more organization is needed, but that shouldn't be a reason for not featuring it.--Tim Thomason 18:55, 29 Dec 2005 (UTC)
• Support: I agree with everything thats been said above, and the fact that lots of TOS episodes are already featured shouldn't be a point against it. Zsingaya ^Talk 19:06, 29 Dec 2005 (UTC)

• Featured. :) --From Andoria with Love 23:00, 29 Dec 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Background information

The entry When the entity exits the Enterprise at the end of the episode, it's seen leaving through the front center of the secondary hull, thus canonizing the location of Main Engineering in a Constitution class starship for the first time. I don't see that this follows. The entity could have left the shuttlebay and still exited the same place if it didn't take the most direct route out of the ship. Tiberius 03:45, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Computer Voice

"For whatever reason, Majel Barrett's computer voice is done in a much higher register in this episode and has a strong echo effect. These characteristics are not repeated in any of the episodes to come."

I never once thought this was even Majel providing the voice in this episode. It sounds nothing like her in register or in vocal pattern. I think it's plausable that she was not asked to provide the computer voice for this episode for whatever reason (perhaps she was unavailable).

I don't think that the computer voice was Majel Barrett's in this episode, either. But, as to her being unavailable. I highly doubt it. She was Gene Roddenberry's lover at that time. - Adambomb1701 19:06, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Expletive - Yes or No?

From the Article: According to Emerson Bixby, son of Jerome Bixby, James Doohan was taken aside before filming his dramatic scene on the bridge. Much to Doohan’s delight, Bixby asked him to pronounce the word “Vulcan” to sound euphonically like a certain expletive. Listen closely to Scotty’s stern insistence that Spock keep his hands off of him.

The more I watch this episode, the more I believe that Jimmy Doohan actually said the expletive. I can't believe that this got past the censors in 1968. - Adambomb1701 19:04, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

What expletive? According to that note, the word was "Vulcan", just with a very negative tone. --OuroborosCobra ^talk 19:05, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Liaten really carefully. Scotty sure sounds like he's saying what's referred to as "the 'F' word" instead of "Vulcan". I saw this episode back on its first run in 1968, and even then, I was convinced he was saying it. Or, maybe I'm hearing what I want to hear. - Adambomb1701 19:10, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

What "F" word? "Falcon"?!? --Defiant 19:14, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

He pronounces Vulcan as "Vuckin" to rhyme with "fuckin'." Is this what everyone is tiptoeing around? Sir Rhosis 20:59, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Sounds like vulcan to me, maybe its just his accent combined with the anger that made it sound like the expletive Wheatleya 14:35, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Only female Klingon appearance

Forum:Cast and Crew

Star Trek (The Original Series) episode - "Day of the Dove"

This episode marks the ONLY appearance of female Klingons on the Original Series.

Mara, the wife of Kang - played by Susan Howard unnamed crewperson shown briefly on the Enterprise transport pad.

Question - Does anyone know the name of the character and/or actress shown? Your sources, please. – The preceding unsigned comment was added by 207.200.116.197 (talk).

The information you want is in the article about the character Mara. - Quase 12:23, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

There is a second female, and that is who I believe s/he is speaking of as well. --Alan 17:12, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Summary

An extremely powerful race of non-corporeal beings - I don't know that this is accurate - at one point Kirk speculates that there may be more of the beings and that perhaps they have been an active agent in history, but at no point is there clearly more than one involved... – The preceding unsigned comment was added by Thecustodian (talk • contribs) .

We see more than one "being" in this episode. They interact with each other. --OuroborosCobra ^talk 01:13, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Holy crap, I was just thinking of the wrong episode. --OuroborosCobra ^talk 01:19, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] nitpicks

• It is interesting to note that Spock states that the "instantaneous transmutation of matter" is beyond the technological capabilities of the Federation or Klingons, because by the 24th century replicator technology has made this possible. However, he may be refering to the fact that replicators take some time to create matter, and are thus not instantaneous.

How is that at all interesting to note? 100 years later we have the technology to do stuff...wow...anyway, removed. — Morder 01:04, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Leaving the Galaxy?

Why do they think it is even an option to leave the Galaxy? No matter where they are, it would take them tens of thousands of light-years to reach the edge of the Galaxy(even at Warp 9). Earth itself is about 25,000 light-years from the Galactic Center and chances are the Enterprise is not too far out (they are on a five year mission after all so there is only so-far they could have come). – Distantlycharmed 21:43, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Not the top edge or the bottom edge. SennySix 22:37, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

What?– Distantlycharmed 23:55, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

First off, they did reach the edge of the galaxy in two episodes of TOS.

Second off, the variables in this situation make Distantlycharmed's statement impossible to determine -- we do not know the Enterprise 's distance from Earth or the edge of the galaxy in the episode. Nor do we know the exact speed of the Enterprise in multiples of light speed -- these remain ambiguous in canon.

Third off, SennySix is right -- the galaxy is fairly flat in conventional understanding, meaning you could get to an "edge" (an ambiguous concept itself) and leave it much quicker by going straight "up" or "down", or even at an angle, rather than going straight "across" the disk. No one ever said they would leave in a certain location. -- Captain MKB 00:39, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

3rd dimension, man. OK so we all got told "theres no UP in space" OK fine but the galaxy is THIN so go that way to the nearest "edge". Its a thin flat disk shaped volume not a circular plane surface. If youre stuck in the middle of a pancake and you have to get out FAST are you going just bust out the side or are you going to eat your way all the way to the circumcerence? SennySix 01:23, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Ahh...that's what you meant. Well, I know that in other episodes both in TOS and TNG they made it out of the Galaxy or to the edge, but I was referring to this episode mainly. I am not saying it is impossible to leave the galaxy, I am saying in this episode it just doesn't seem to make sense that they could at Warp 9 and given their location. Ok you guys are right, we dont really know per se where they are but we can make some inferences from the information we are given, which is that they are on a five year mission and even at maximum warp couldnt be that far away from Earth, which is positioned at 25,000 ly from galactic center. Could they be more "up" and "down" in the "dough"...possibly.

However, scientists have recently found that our Galaxy is about 12,000 light-years thick. Previously they believed it to be about 6,000 ly, but recent studies have made revising that number necessary. Moreover, it bulges towards the galactic center and thus gets thicker there. So in either scenario, it is technically not flat so that they could just shoot straight up and leave. 6,000 ly means several years at Warp 9. It is not a several weeks or months journey.

Plus, in this episode, when they are moved by that entity towards the edge of the galaxy, Scotty actually states that they are moving at Warp 9. So we do actually know the speed.

Also, let's say the galaxy is superflat and one could easily get to the edge by going up or down, don't you think they would have explored this fantastic opportunity (or possibility) more in all of Star Trek? Throughout it just seems like leaving the Galaxy is a big deal. Anyway, maybe that entity decided to move them at a faster speed later on without compromising structural integrity and it was just not talked about or mentioned in the episode. Maybe they found a wormhole that brought them really close to the edge of the Galaxy...– Distantlycharmed 04:21, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

OK, enough, please. We're supposed to be talking about MA activities or the article, not about the episode's (de)merits and our inability to suspend disbelief. --TribbleFurSuit 04:32, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Well put, TFS. To simplify the whole matter, the answer that the Enterprise got to the edge of the galaxy twice before, and once left it, would make it more than reasonable for the crew to think it was still a possibility for them. -- Captain MKB 07:08, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Oh please. MA Discussion pages are full of posts about people discussing continuity or scientific validity etc. And yeah they did make it out of Galaxy some episode else, at different speeds, which has nothing to do with this episode. Nothing wrong with asking this questions.– Distantlycharmed 15:35, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Just because it has happened a lot doesn't mean that's what it's for or that you should keep this up. Half of those got archived from the Reference Desk. The other half were from newcomers who hadn't read their welcome message yet. Please read the link I posted. Besides the on-topic/off-topic guidelines, there's additional information there about where to put your comments (at the end) and how to indent your comments (same level every time), and where to chitchat (IRC, Subspace Comms Network) or ask questions that you want MA to answer (Reference Desk). That's 5 different things you could have learned by now. You're not exactly a newcomer, and in fact you've used at least two details from Help:Talk pages in the past to defend your own actions, so it's really obvious that you have already read it very carefully, following some of your previous Talk: page mis-steps. You can't pick and choose which parts suit you. That is all. --TribbleFurSuit 16:25, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Oh ya, you mean the one that was ignored? Anyway, stop nit picking. I just made a mere observation here and a lot of people who are not newbies do. Don't rip me a new one yo....– Distantlycharmed 17:16, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Time to cut the crap, everyone. Distantlycharmed, don't try to play all innocent, you've received warnings on your talk page about just this same behavior and opinion posts. Stop it. Everyone else, stop feeding it. Stop it. --OuroborosCobra ^talk 17:19, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

I am not playing all innocent or anything else for that matter. I really think it is interesting to discuss such things with folks here, it makes for a livelier community and it is interesting to share/exchange information/opinions like that (maybe the policy should be amended then?), and I was genuinely not aware of having to resort to Help Desk to ask questions about space travel or episode specific ones. If you dont believe me, fine. And, up until the personal attacks against me began (which are always in this nasty "screw off" tone btw), nothing was "crap" on here - it was just a few people engaging in conversation about something. Stop making every comment into a drama. I didnt grossly violate MA policies so relax - I just asked a question/made an observation. – Distantlycharmed 20:13, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

I don't believe you because you have notes on your talk page telling you specifically not to engage in the behavior you are doing right now. This has been an ongoing problem with you, and cut it. We have rules here, and you don't change rules by simply ignoring them. Cut the crap. --OuroborosCobra ^talk 20:16, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

[edit] "Just don't put me inside a bulkhead."

Just watched this episode. Wasn't this line from "The enterprise Incident"? I don't remember hearing it in "Day of the dove". - Jackoverfull 23:06, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Background cleaning

Will do the following cleaning...

• During the fight in the corridor after the entity changes the weapons into swords, just before Kirk's group backs into the elevator, one of the props attached to the wall is dislodged and rolls around on the floor. It is back in place about three minutes later when Chekov storms past it.

Nit.

• In the briefing room scene where objects turn to swords, Kirk and company back out through the doors into the hallway. From this angle, the corridor wall is bathed in a purplish light. However, in the next shot from inside the corridor, the end of the corridor is painted purple, not the wall, making it impossible to have been able to see any purple from the previous angle from inside the briefing room.

Nit.

• When Chekov attacks Mara, her makeup comes off on his hands. Later, when Kirk punches Chekov, his hands hit the corridor wall, leaving handprints in makeup.

Nit.

• At the end of the episode, although the entity is shown on the upper level of Engineering, that's not where the characters are looking. This might have been due to the fact that the background opposite the main wall was composed of a stilted platform that held up the Emergency Manual Monitor set. The set pieces through which Kirk searched for his double in "The Enemy Within" had been modified when the set was remodeled for the second season. According to set drawings, the walls of the bridge set would have been directly behind the open end of the engineering set.

Nit...I think.

• Stunt performer Charles Picerni is uncredited as the security guard who assists Scott and Sulu.

Not really sure: shouldn't this be somewere else? Put it back on the page if it's ok.

• George Takei appears for a split second in Engineering at the very end of the show, although he is not seen in the hallway as the crew fight their way in. This suggests that there was some footage cut from this scene.

Nit...

• Ubiquitous stunt man and extra Jay Jones can also be seen as a Klingon in a few scenes.

So?

• The final shot, of the alien entity leaving the Enterprise, is extremely similar to the final shot of TNG: "Emergence", in which an entity created by the holodecks aboard the USS Enterprise-D leaves the ship.

So?

• A bit of dialogue in Star Trek III-The Search for Spock is reminiscent of dialogue in this episode, specifically the scene when Kang forces Kirk to beam the Klingons aboard the Enterprise.

Day of the Dove

Kang: "Don’t plan any tricks Kirk. I will kill one hundred hostages at the first sign of treachery."

Kirk: "I’ll beam you aboard the Enterprise--once there…no tricks."

And The Search for Spock

Kruge: "No tricks Kirk--you have one minute!"

Kirk: "No tricks…I’m looking forward to meeting you."

And it's similar to several similar scenes, in star trek or elsewhere. – The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jackoverfull (talk • contribs) .

[edit] Phrasing later used by Borg?

I'm surprised this was not mentioned in the article, but in the infamous "keep your Vuckin' [or whatever] hands off me" scene, Scotty makes an interesting comment just prior to his little racist freakout. Screaming at Kirk about how he's damaged the Federation by not killing the Klingons right off the bat, Scotty laments that the Klingons will "add our technology to theirs" or something similar. While not identical obviously, the similarity to the (always friendly) Borg greeting was striking to me. Is this merely a coincidence (which would not be a shock) or did the TNG writers who created the Borg's standard line have this episode in mind to at least some degree? Just a thought. --72.89.208.95 07:46, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Our policy is that if it isn't deliberately identical, and backed up by evidence, we don't mention similarities between episodes.--31dot 09:20, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Makes sense, and that's kind of what I figured, but I thought it was possible that a connection was discussed in a book, DVD commentary or special feature, etc. Thanks for replying. --72.89.208.95 04:43, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Also removed

• Interestingly enough, despite the humans on the Enterprise finding swords related to their own cultures, for example Sulu's katana and Scotty's claymore, the Klingons found European Earth swords, instead of bat'leths or other klingon blade weapons, as does Spock, instead of a lirpa or other Vulcan weapon such as an ahn-woon.

Nitpick.--31dot 21:59, November 1, 2009 (UTC)