Talk:Fallen Hero (episode)

From Memory Alpha, the free Star Trek reference

Contents 1 Episode talk page 1.1 Maintenance links 2 Intial Warp Speed 3 Vulcan Secret 4 Sheer number of quotes

[edit] Intial Warp Speed

Didn't Archer order warp 4.8 first, then accelerated to 5, rather than 4.9 to 5 as suggested in this article. I can't find my tape of the episode or I'd look it up, but if anyone happens to remember...Lewis zimmerman 08:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

They go from 4.8 to warp 5:

Archer: Then let's give them a run for their money. Travis, increase speed to warp 4.8.

Mayweather: Aye, sir. Warp 4.8.

T'Pol: They're matching our speed and accelerating. Warp four point nine.

Reed': They're closing to twenty thousand kilometers. Fifteen.

Archer: Travis.

Travis: Warp four point nine.

Reed: They're holding at four point nine, sir.

(later)

Travis: They're increasing speed. Warp 4.95.

Reed: They're reentering weapons range sir.

Tucker: Please tell me you're ready to slow down.

Archer: Sorry Trip, but we need a little more speed.

Trip: I don't know how much more I can give you.

Archer: It's called a warp five engine.

Trip: On paper!

Archer: We don't have any choice, Trip.

(Ambassador V'Lar arrives on the bridge)

Archer (to V'Lar): Ambassador.

(V'Lar sits)

Archer (to Travis): Warp five.

See? :D Hope that helps! :) --From Andoria with Love 09:27, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

After the above order, Travis reads off the Enterprise's speed thresholds as it accelerates through "4.93... 4.95... 4.97... 4.99... Warp 5." —MJBurrage^(T•C) 00:37, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Vulcan Secret

Do we ever find out what the Vulcans are still keeping secret, vis-a-vis letting the attackers go? —MJBurrage^(T•C) 00:37, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Good question, and what else are they keeping to themselves... "for good reason"?

"You believe Captain Archer can be trusted?"

"Yes."

"Even though he clearly doesn't trust us?"

"He's... resentful."

"Why?"

"He believes we held back their development of warp technology."

"We've kept many things from them, all for good reason."

"But situations like this only reinforce their resentment. If we expect to continue our relations with Humanity we have to earn their trust."

- V'Lar and T'Pol

Unfortunately, this quote did not make the Morder's Top Five Most Memorable Quotes list! LOL! — Greg (talk) 05:28, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Yes, unfortunately you failed to read my statement about replacing those with more memorable quotes if they're there. --Morder 08:38, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Sheer number of quotes

After a quick discussion with Tom I've removed most of the quotes from the Memorable Quotes section. Seriously there should only be a few memorable quotes per episode. I've kept the few that sounded memorable to me but feel free to replace them with others if you think others are more appropriate. --Morder 01:20, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Eegorr, I'm not trying to single you out or anything. Just stating that 18 quotes seems overkill. If I'm wrong in this please, someone speak up. There really aren't that many memorable quotes per episode. --Morder 02:01, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

I agree, the quotes section should only be limited to those quotes that really stand out. There's no need to quote the entire bloody episode. An memorable quotes section should have five, maybe six good quotes, tops. IMO, anyway.--From Andoria with Love 02:14, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

The fact of the matter is that, 8 hours ago, there were no quotes on this page -- there wasn't even a memorable quotes section! I hand transcribed every one of those quotes while watching the episode today, and it did not even approach the entire script. While I agree that there might have been too many, five quotes is too few -- maybe we should limit the summary to five paragraphs as well?

In fact, I tried to include quotes that tie into the summary in some way, like the one you generously left in that has Travis counting up to warp five. And the two quotes by T'Pol where she first thinks that V'Lar does not remember meeting her, then finds out later that she does and that she actually had an impact on V'Lar's life are both memorable, IMHO.

Frankly, a wiki is supposed to be less about limiting contributions than encouraging them, unless we are talking about vandalism, of course. I've found memory-alpha to be quite the opposite. People here are quicker on the delete button than any other wiki I have been a part of. There is really no reason why we can't have a dozen or so quotes per page... if you don't want to look at them just scroll past the section.

Maybe there is some way we can hide the quotes by default and only expand the section when a button is clicked. Would that be acceptable? We could do the same thing with the summary and really clean things up! — Greg (talk) 05:05, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Edit: BTW, I just checked... there were 17 quotes when I left this page earlier, and seven of them were one or two liners. — Greg (talk) 05:15, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

17 or 18 it makes no difference. I'm not trying to discourage you from contributing at all, quite the contrary. But we all want to keep the contributions reasonable. Could you add 17 quotes. Yes. Should you add 17 quotes most likely not...I know I'm not the only one who thinks so but they really need to be memorable, those that stand out in the episode rather than any that just sound good. The particular quote that you reference above I removed as it's been stated several times throughout the series. First episode comes to mind. Therefore the quote wasn't really unique to this episode. But again, as this is a wiki you're free to remove or change any quotes as you see fit. I know it was a lot of hard work to add those but you have to expect your changes to be edited and possibly removed. That's the nature of open sites like Memory-Alpha. So please, continue to add more information but please also don't take changes to your additions personally. By the way. I always consult others before I make major changes to other peoples contributions as I am not always right. --Morder 08:46, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

I'd like to re-iterate that part that just because you did a lot of hard work doesn't mean it is going to stay, and definitely isn't reason to keep it on its own. I remind you of the message above the "save page" dialog whenever you edit a page, "If you don't want your writing to be edited mercilessly and redistributed at will, then don't submit it here".

A dozen quotes is too much. This is a memorable quotes section, not a general quotes section. Particularly if you are going to have large chunks of conversations rather than one liners, a dozen or more is too many. I prefer the conversations to the one liners, as the conversations give context, but that means limiting the number. That is a sacrifice that must be made. To compare this to the summary section is not fair, as they have completely different goals. The purpose of the summary section is to provide an in depth summary of an entire episode. The memorable quotes section is for a small selection of memorable quotes. I think you can see the difference here. --OuroborosCobra ^talk 17:23, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Editing is one thing, wholesale deletion is quite another. As this section is made up of quotes taken directly from the episode, there is not really much room for editing, but if you find an error or want to clarify who was involved in the conversation and how, please have at it. I still object to the mass deletion, though.

I agree that there is no need for a number of quotes approaching the full script of the episode, but I disagree, apparently, about what is memorable. That said I can only think of two good reasons for limiting the number of quotes:

1. We are trying to save storage space.
2. It makes the page look cluttered.

As for number one, I doubt if this is the issue - am I wrong? The text of an entire episode page is less than 20K, I think, and adding a few more quotes would add maybe 10% to that.

As for number two, I asked in my previous post whether there was a way to hide the text of the memorable quotes section (and the summary, for that matter) by default. This would really clean things up. I mean this in a good way, BTW. Is this a possibility? If it is, does it interest anyone? If not, why not? — Greg (talk) 01:30, 30 May 2008 (UTC)