Talk:Fan fiction

From Memory Alpha, the free Star Trek reference

should we define some sort of notation for books that were published without the consent of Paramount Pictures (i.e. illegally)? technically, this isn't a Star Trek book at all, its fan fiction. -- Captain Mike K. Bartel^talk 17:32, 1 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Contents 1 Fan fiction 1.1 Fan productions (moved from reference desk) 1.2 The future of Memory-Alpha.Org 1.3 Fan fiction reference works 2 Forum:New Wiki for fanfiction? 3 What to do with "fanon" on this page? (it's not fan fiction)

[edit] Fan fiction

There have ben numerous instances of "fan fiction" style publications being mentioned here -- some discussions:

[edit] Fan productions (moved from reference desk)

Since I have added an article on fanon, do I need to include several Star Trek fan series and fan films? If not, where should I add Star Trek related fanon material?

Not on MA, I'm afraid. Please read our Memory Alpha:Canon policy... -- Cid Highwind 20:50, 22 Aug 2005 (UTC)

[edit] The future of Memory-Alpha.Org

Memory-Alpha.Org will run out of canon soon. The reason Memory-Alpha.Org sticks to canon is because we could barely keep up with canon. This is no longer true. We have an inexhaustible store of Star Trek as yet untapped:

Noncanon. We could write articles about fanfiction (we should not allow fanfiction itself because it would cause people searching the encyclpædia to get stories instead of technical articles). We can include speculation such as the the Xindispecies, being so obviously related, yet representing five families, four classes and two or three phyla (¿are the Aquatics chordates?) must be the products of genetic engineering. We could start an article about the eternal favorite of Star Trek Versus Star Wars (a single Imperator-Classstardestroyer could easily defeat a Borgcube).

This is not the end. We just have to broaden our mandate. A few months ago, Someone started an article about the respectful but hilariously satirical STAR WREK — The best 'Star Trek' parody since 'The Next Generation'! The response was that at the time we could not broaden our mandate with about two dozen canonepisodes of Enterprise for processing an year to process. That certainly was true at the time; but now however, we literally have nothing else to do but create a synopsis for every character of STAR WREK . — — Ŭalabio‽ 04:16, 20 Oct 2005 (UTC)

Is it really necessary to make your text so bulky? (I've since tightened it up). Anyway, "Soon"? I don't see that we are anywhere near running out of canon anytime "soon". So without giving an opinion on anything else other than that, I think this conversation is overly premature. Other than that, I don't like this idea at all. Lets get to point "B" before we start heading for point "C". --Alan del Beccio 04:33, 20 Oct 2005 (UTC)

We "literally" have plenty more to do, so i say no -- the logistics (not to mention the copyright problems) are kind of mind boggling. I'd rather not disrupt the achievement of a canon database (our ultimate goal) by mixing the data with fan fiction and parodies (completely irrelevant, in my opinion).

I like non-canon, if you'd like, see how pages on novels and comics could be expanded -- I think its an important part of Memory Alpha. Perhaps suggest a website directory that we could police and monitor, to link to gaming or creative sites that are outside of our parameters.

I won't allow this site to be turned into a commercial for cheap knockoffs of Star Trek when theres a perfectly good original series, its spinoffs and movies and tied in licensed media like collecible publications. I'm not a fan of much stuff that Joe Schmoe ran off in his garage, or put on his website -- expecially if we are talking about a commercial venture to capitalize on Star Trek. -- Captain Mike K. Bartel^talk 04:37, 20 Oct 2005 (UTC)

I agree. Check here to see how much still needs to be done! --T smitts 04:43, 20 Oct 2005 (UTC)

MA definitely won't "run out of canon" soon. There's still much to write about, and even more to "write better" about. Until both has happened, there's no need to discuss the possible inclusion of fan-fiction and other unofficial material. -- Cid Highwind 09:46, 20 Oct 2005 (UTC)

*lol* Look at this or this, that's work for years... --Porthos 10:08, 20 Oct 2005 (UTC)

Hmm, 747 stubs and 183 incomplete articles...out of the current 31,057 articles, that means roughly 6% of the content we have in M/A still needs some sort of attention, and that doesnt even count what hasn't be written yet. --Alan del Beccio 18:14, 22 Oct 2005 (UTC)

This is why I thought "Memory Alpha:Refit of the Week" was a great idea, but apparently no one was interested, which is indicative of the larger problem: Most of the easiest stuff has been covered, and people get lazy. Even once we finish cleaning up things like the technobabble no one actually understands or the actor pages where no one's sure what to add, I think there are more encyclopedic (but also more difficult) things to write about, such as Ethics and Politics of the Klingon Empire. Weyoun 18:58, 22 Oct 2005 (UTC)

Hey Alan, dont be so cynical. The reason why Memory Alpha is cool is because everybody contributes.

• How am I being cynical, unsigned user, by simply stating the facts? --Alan del Beccio 18:18, 13 Nov 2005 (UTC)

I thought about Memory-Alpha, and if it would run out of material after some time. But we still have LOTS of work to do, not to mention tons of episode reviews (And with Star Trek magazines, new information is always released every month). Then, of course, new books are always coming out, and TONS of books don't have a page here. So there is still lots of work ahead! - Adm. Enzo Aquarius 23:51, 23 Oct 2005 (UTC)

• Strongly Against - Not that this vote is really needed ;-) I very much DON'T like this idea. Fan fiction is just ridiculous, I could write a story right now with references out the BAK, and we'd be making ridiculous articles for years. We clearly have more articles to make, and if it runs out, we'll simply find more. I know many episode summaries that could use a lot of work, and if not work, improvement. Among other things, their "references" are ridiculously small. Not to mention the many actors and actresses we have to do. Which are constantly being added to. A movie may be coming out in the coming years. But yes, if all goes well, we'll run out of canon material, which means we'll have to work on the pages for all those novels that could use work, the comic books, and many others. I don't think we need to worry about running out of articles yet, and when we do, I will strongly oppose the includinh of fan fiction and the kinds of speculation that were referred. - AJHalliwell 00:33, 24 Oct 2005 (UTC)

• Also Strongly Against - I personally don't read the fan fiction. Although some of it is good, some of it is garbage. I'd hate to come here to read about some topic and have to dig through piles of minutia that's completely irrelevant and non-canon to me. Perhaps an entire second site called "Memory Beta" should be set up with that stuff, so people can read it and others can enjoy MA without having to deal with it.

And even when we run out of articles, there are always ways for improvement. For example, take a look at the Amanda Rogers page (and there's even 4 articles linked to it which aren't done). A one-timer Star Trek appearance/mention, and the article is quite expansive and detailed. A number of character pages could have the same amount of detail (If not more) in the future. Additionally, there will always be something new found or observed, especially with background information (stuff on LCARS displays especially). - Adm. Enzo Aquarius 21:59, 24 Oct 2005 (UTC)

How about the New Voyages (the professional-quality fan-produced extension of TOS)? Normally I wouldn't suggest non-canon, but since it has the endorsement of Gene Roddenberry's son and the cooperation of original TOS actors (like Walter Koenig) and writers (like D.C. Fontana), maybe data from that series could be added?

EmiOfBrie 23:28, 4 Nov 2005 (CST)

This topic was already discussed previously, and the idea was rejected. Click here to learn more. --From Andoria with Love 05:45, 5 Nov 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Fan fiction reference works

I separated several "bootleg" publications into a separate list on reference works -- is something that ws published without the consent of the Star Trek franchise owners, writers and production staff really have anything to do with Star Trek?

In the past we've deleted or removed links to these(such as USS Enterprise Officer's Manual, considering them outside of MA's scope -- Captain Mike K. Bartel^talk 18:08, 1 Dec 2005 (UTC)

In MA/de we had just a month of conversation what to do with unlicensed games. We came to an agreement to create de:Fan-Rollenspiele where all the individiual games would be stored, as we already started on de:Fanfiction. So these books should be treated likewise and create fan fiction books (or alike), but keep the redirects. What comes to my mind is that the page might need to subdivided a lot (technical manuals, episode guides, other) just by looking at my own collection. -- Kobi - (Talk) 20:08, 1 Dec 2005 (UTC)

In accordance with the German edit, created the page fan fiction to serve as top-level in this matter. Fan films has also been created without content, because of problems listed below. Films with Walter Koenig and Eddie Paskey are obviously relevant, but how irrelevant would they have to be to not be listed/be removed from that list. Tough questions.

Frankly, i created it just to keep people from listing garbage "bootleg" tech manuals in reference works -- a lot of those books, besides being illegally (or "semi-legally") published, aren't worth much of the paper they are printed on, however, some were written by young Trek artists, and the fanzine scene is a fascinating scene to research -- but soon we'll have to administrate the removal of explicit slash fiction sources, so expect bumps.

It'll be good to keep such pursuits separate from our main articles on novels, etc, as well as separate from our articles on canon -- Captain Mike K. Bartel^talk 20:57, 5 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Try http://startrek.wikicities.com/wiki/Main_Page for non-canon information Keras 23:30, 15 Dec 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Forum:New Wiki for fanfiction?

"I've tried to add information on numerous pages on various fan fiction related subjects but they always get removed and edited out. I understand that many people see in as non-canon information and I've always tried to make it clear that that's what it was (because it is). Every time someone removes my comments they suggest it should be moved to the page about fan fiction but there's just so much to say and tell about the subject it would be difficult to just make one page about it. But I do feel that it's an important part of Trek, seeing that the fans create it. So I've been thinking that I would like start a new wiki about fan fiction. With a library were writers could add links, or even create an online database containing the thousands of fan fiction stories out there. The site would contain reviews, summarizations of the stories content, context, categorizes like slash or not, rated R or pg-13 and such, personal stories, information about the writers etc.."

"But I have no idea on how to set about creating on what would obviously be a huge project. So I would like to ask if the creators of Memory Alpha would tell me how to get started, and how to go about it, and maybe even get a few volunteers who would like to help me out?"

"I think this could save everyone a lot of time editing all this stuff out, you could just add a reference to this new Wiki. And give fan fiction fans a place to find information pertaining the subjects they are looking for. It would be a Wiki for non-canon works, created in the vast realm of fan fiction and many things like it. Like internet fan shows or fan videos."

"Ideas, suggestions, comments? I would appreciate any. Sincerely, – ~~Marjolijn~~"

It already exists: STEU -- Sulfur 00:45, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

It tickles my spoon to see someone really taking to heart my personal single favorite MA (and general Wiki) policy: Be Bold! I especially like how, Marjolijn, you're finding the solution to this particular problem of all of us in that policy. To start a new Wiki for material that isn't appropriate for this one is bold thinking indeed!

For anyone who wants to know an answer to the general question, while the specific Star Trek fan fiction wiki doesn't require starting after all, let me point out that Wikia has a whole section to help one sort out the details of getting started. And one could drum up interest in advance, via announcements on forum sites (which do exist, no matter what the subject - call this Garak's Corrollary to "Rule 34"). People will respond, thus soothing one's initial apprehension and uncertainty over undertaking an understandably overwhelming - for one person - project like that.

Now, colleagues, a thought: Since it is clearly not after all "sav[ing] everyone a lot of time editing all this stuff out", since it apparently keeps getting added here, may I propose a solution that offers us a way to keep it from being repeatedly added by the same contributors in the first place? Marjolijn points out the advice she's been getting: "Put it on the fanfic page". Might we not do better to instruct, "Put it in STEU"? SwishyGarak 01:32, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Thank you all already for your help. I'd actually never even heard of STEU. I've just checked it out, but I need to look into it more closely cause I get the impression that its one of those Wiki's that doesn't seem to know what exactly it wants to be. By that I mean that it contains way to many pages that are just exact copies of Memory Alpha pages (with minor differences). You see this on Memory Beta as well. I also got the impression that it only contains fan fiction that is based and placed in the actual canon Star Trek universe (with the exception of parodies of course). If that is how it is, then it wouldn't leave any room for the bulk of the fan fiction that exists. I mean, slash fiction would be out of the question, you couldn't mention uber stories or even stories that are based in slightly altered versions of canon. I will contact the creators of STEU and see how they feel about adding fan fiction of the types I mentioned above. If they feel it does not belong on STEU I will still try and begin a new Wiki for this type of fan fiction because let's get real everyone. Fan fiction that is an addition or addendum to actual canon only is the smallest minority of the fan fiction that is being created out there. There are so many excellent writers and video makers in uber, slash and other stories, I feel it would be highly unfair to pretend they don't exist because most of their works don't conform with canon. Keep the advice coming and please feel free to offer your thoughts on my last comments. Once again sincerely – ~~Marjolijn~~

See the "Appropriate Content" page in STEU's Policies section. They welcome coverage of every fan creation - there are no statements about whether the canonical universe is a requirement or not. Referenced material just needs to be citable. It does say, however, that STEU is not the place to HOST fan creations. It's an encyclopedia. Still, you're probably already familiar with the various sites which will host fanfic. Just at a glance, I discovered twguild.com, trekfiction.com, fanfiction.net, and obviously the newsgroups (aka Usenet, aka Google Groups for linkable Web presence) see piles of this material. So the hosting and the cataloguing of fanfic are two separate needs. Wikis satisfy the second, other internets satisfy the first. Bonne chance, SwishyGarak 03:31, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] What to do with "fanon" on this page? (it's not fan fiction)

I like the idea to make a distinction between "fan fiction" and "fanon" - they're totally not the same thing and I'd argue that they're barely even "related concept[s]". Nevertheless it was recently added to this page under "Other Resources". First: if this is the right page to talk about fanon, I think that section isn't the right part. Second, I think this page isn't the place to talk about Fanon at all, except maybe a "you may be looking for..." note at the top. Any thoughts? --TribbleFurSuit 17:27, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Sorry. I felt fanon should be noted somewhere, but wasn't sure where it should be so I just decided this page might fit. It seems I was wrong. :P Feel free to remove it. However, I think it should be on her somewhere-possibly it's own page? --Golden Monkey 18:02, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Nevermind, it's already on canon. --Golden Monkey 18:04, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Aha, so it is! --TribbleFurSuit 23:00, 16 December 2008 (UTC)