Talk:George Kirk

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Contents 1 Images 2 Sleeves 3 George and Winona Kirk origination 4 .04 or "zero-four" 5 Division 6 Page split

[edit] Images

I noticed the images of George Kirk on this page seem to have a high level of red in them, with poor colour balance! Anyone got images that could be subsituted for these ones? -- WormholeAlien 13:12, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

This is an issue with one editor's uploads. I'll try and replace them where possible. -- Michael Warren | Talk 13:16, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for that, clearer pictures should make the page much more aesthetically pleasing! :) -- WormholeAlien 13:21, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Sleeves

Anyone catch the sleeves of George's uniform? Stripe(s)? -- Captain MKB 03:15, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

He has 2 stripes on his sleeve. One thick and one thin. Thicker one on the lower part. — Morder 03:54, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

That would make him a lieutenant commander... but dialogue specifically referred to him as a lieutenant. (See Kirk's Academy hearing; Spock refers to Kirk's father as "Lieutenant George Kirk"). Looks like another costume error... unless they were going by the ENT ranking, which means he would be a lieutenant junior grade. --From Andoria with Love 04:29, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

How many times has Data been called Lieutenant? — Morder 04:30, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, the term of address for a Lieutenant Commander is rarely "Lieutenant Commander." It is usually "Commander," but Star Trek has just as often said "Lieutenant." --OuroborosCobra ^talk 04:42, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Not quite "just as often", but it is a frequent Trek mistake. I think the 2230s ranks might be taken better as unrelated to previous or latter systems, because of the oddity of the two examples -- someone rewatched the film and noted Robau also had two stripes when I asked them, but I haven't verified this. Part of me wants to say that George would probably be LTCMDR to be XO of a ship that size, but this relies on thinking he would be a LTCMDR who is subordinate to someone who is either a CMDR or "full captain". If we bring the stripes in comparison with later systems, it would seem that George is only one rank below Robau who wore the same amount of stripes in possibly the CMDR (two full stripes) of later systems. The sheer number of crew involved discourage me from thinking of Robau as being less than a fully-ranked captain. -- Captain MKB 06:45, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Well, it's a survey ship - might not require a full captain... — Morder 06:57, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Where is this survey ship coming from, now? Not that I'm disagreeing, Deep Space 9 obviously had thousands onboard, and it started with a Commander. --OuroborosCobra ^talk 07:00, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Considering we're talking about a non-canon possibility of what Robau is I'm stating a non-canon (background note from Startrek.com?) item about the Kelvin :) — Morder 07:12, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

All this is nebulous until I get a good look at Robau's sleeve -- the camerawork seems designed to thwart this, but I'm hoping it will be a familiar insignia -- since we are dealing with the possibility of Kirk being a LT or LTCMDR and also the possibility of Robau being LT CMDR, CMDR or CAPT... kinda nebulous... -- Captain MKB 19:49, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

You can trust my statement Captain MKB - it is exactly how I stated. — Morder 19:52, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks~! I had even forgotten it was you who told me that. I'm wondering if Robau had two stripes the same size or not.

Also, just on CMDR Sisko & DS9, in the first year, DS9 only had a population of 300 according to what O'Brien told Tosk. -- Captain MKB 19:56, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Nope, just as I said above. One was thick the other was thin with the thick one at the end of the sleeve. As for the population of 300 - I would have to say that must only include starfleet officers as the station is huge...or just too new to have the 1000's it must have had. — Morder 19:59, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

In behind the scenes images, such as this one, Robau's insignia can be seen. It's composed of three stripes, the middle of which is thin, like the other captains seen in the movie. George Kirk's insignia can similarly be verified in behind the scenes images (such as this one) as the standard lieutenant commander insignia.--Columbia clipper 17:39, November 2, 2009 (UTC)

[edit] George and Winona Kirk origination

Both the George Kirk and Winona Kirk articles state that the origination of these names came in the TOS novel Final Frontier, published in 1988. However the TOS novel Enterprise: The First Adventure contains these names and was published in 1986. Does anybody know anything about this? I wanted to ask around before considering any edits to these pages.

--Tendonstrength 20:26, 12 August 2009 (UTC)tendonstrength

According to _Star Trek: Voyages of Imagination: The Star Trek Fiction Companion_ by Jeff Ayers, "Diane [Carey] received a call from her editor requesting that she write the story of the launch of the Starship Enterprise and her first mission under Robert April. She said, 'A few days layer I got a call asking that I fold in the character of George Kirk. of course, my response was, "Who the heck is George Kirk?" Well, apprently this was James Kirk's father.'" So while the names of Jim's parents come from McIntyre's _Enterprise: the First Adventure_, the history and character of George Kirk comes primarily from this novel and its sequel _Best Destiny_. Also, the ST:XI screenwriters have acknowledged in interviews that specifically Carey's _Best Destiny_ influenced the characterisation of Jim Kirk in screenplay.

-- Ljconstantine 03:25, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

[edit] .04 or "zero-four"

Died: Post-2265 (prime reality),

2233 (stardate "2233-zero-four") (alternate reality)

What the heck? It seems rather obvious that Robau's statement of "2233 zero four" was intended to refer to 2233.04; I can't see any reason why we would want or need to have it spelled out here when there's not really any ambiguity. I didn't want to just revert the edit that changed this not long ago for fear of starting an edit war, so I figured I'd float this around a bit to get some consensus first. -Mdettweiler 01:12, September 27, 2009 (UTC)

I agree with you, it's rather pointless. revert it at your leisure. — Morder (talk) 01:19, September 27, 2009 (UTC)

Done. -Mdettweiler 01:27, September 27, 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Division

The screen caps seen here [1] show he is wearing the color grey instead of blue, which might be operations. So was he the First officer or just the senior ranking officer on the bridge at the time? - Archduk3:talk 12:54, October 13, 2009 (UTC)

There's no reason why a first officer couldn't be in the operations division. After all, Spock was in the sciences division and he was most unequivocably the first officer. -Mdettweiler 14:05, October 13, 2009 (UTC)

That' true, I just want to know if grey was the operations color, or if it was sciences. - Archduk3:talk 14:16, October 13, 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Page split

I think it would be a good idea to split the page between realities, if only to make the sidebar legible. - Archduk3:talk 09:19, November 25, 2009 (UTC)

Since we know a little bit more about George from the prime reality than we do about his Kelvin crew mates, that may not be a bad idea. Having said that, I don't have a problem reading the sidebar. --From Andoria with Love 09:40, November 25, 2009 (UTC)

I don't really have a problem either, it just seems to me that all the prime/alternate tags needed for it to be correct would really confuse someone who hasn't seen the movie; and after wrapping their head around the information on the page, may not want to. - Archduk3:talk 10:09, November 25, 2009 (UTC)