Talk:Samoa

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I think something needs to be done about this new opening, as MA is not a disambiguation page for Wikipedia. --OuroborosCobra ^talk 07:29, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

There is no clear, unbiased way I can think of to write an accurate lead for the word "Samoa" but to offer up some measure of disambiguation. You can't say "it's a pair of island nations" because they aren't both nations. The term doesn't refer to a single thing, nor does it refer to two of the same things (as, perhaps, Korea and Germany do). You could come up with some convoluted thing like "governmental units", I suppose, but then you're just inventing compound words that have no currency in English.

The other problem is that [{{*Wikipedia}}] doesn't seem to allow for linkage to a WIkipedia article that does not share the same name as the MA article. In my view, it's biased to have the only link to a Wikipedia article be to the one at Independent State of Samoa. Furthermore, I see no stylistic "error" in making the Wiki-link in the body of the text, as the general convention is that links be made at the first mention of a term in an article.

This lead sentence therefore covers all the bases:

"Samoa" was a colloquial term for both the The Independent State of Samoa and America Samoa, regional neighbors in the South Pacific Ocean on Earth.

CzechOut ☎ | ✍ 22:46, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

I removed the inline Wikipedia links. I'll re-add an external link section for those. I changed the Atoa info into an indented, italicized background note. His nationality/ethnicity would be known in the Trek universe, and phrases like "he might possibly be" don't really look good in that context.--Tim Thomason 23:39, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

I think what's really throwing me about this article is that it's purporting to be a part of the nation-state category here on MA, yet the term "Samoa" fits one nation-state and one sub-national entity. The way to go may well be what Tim Thomason has started here. Stress the geography over the politics. I propose moving it from the nation-state group (and infobox), place it into [[Category:Earth geography]], and move the whole damn thing to the new name "Samoan Islands". That would seem to get around all the issues of bias, WP disambig, and whether or not the political entities exist in the Trek universe. Objections?

Also, the basis of Atoa being Samoan is stronger than fan conjecture. It is specifically mentioned in the script, and the style of dance and music in the scene are inherently Samoan. His name, as said onscreen, is Samoan. The actor playing him is a Hawaiian-born Samoan. The only thing we don't have is a line saying, "I need some shore leave to get back to my family in Pago Pago, captain." So I'm not sure it's really necessary to italicize. The original language of the mention was merely that it was the "likely ancestral home" of the character, which isn't terribly debatable. Someone in his family tree, at some time, was from the Samoan Islands. CzechOut ☎ | ✍ 00:39, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

I have no problem with changing the category and getting rid (and removing Samoa from) the template. This article should stay at "Samoa" though, since that is exactly how it was mentioned in the one canonical sentence.

As for Atoa... Well, I didn't look into the situation fully (sorry about that). Yes, he's described as a "SAMOAN DANCER" in the script, is accompanied by a "three-piece Samoan band" (with Dax banging a "Samoan drum" and the band playing "another Samoan song"). Since we've used script info before (for first names and such), I'd say it was very well-established. Stating it with an italicized note would be acceptable in my opinion. We may even need a Samoan drum article someday.

I personally don't like words like "likely" or "possibly" in situations where it would be known in-universe. It wasn't established, in any form, that Atoa had a mysterious past and only knew that he was "likely" descended from Samoans.

I wished he had said that line ("I need some shore leave... captain"). Not only would it have settled his origin beyond a reasonable doubt, but it would've solved the Shelby debate as well.--Tim Thomason 01:38, 21 September 2007 (UTC)