Talk:Seven of Nine

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Contents 1 Things I'm going to add 2 Suggestions 3 bad math 4 Seven crying over One's death? 5 Pictures of Seven's body 6 Explaining removal to young naive 26 year olds 7 Searching for Seven of Nine 8 Chronology 9 The Raven 10 Deep Space 4 Database Information 11 A Swedish Borg... 12 The dates of the Raven's voyage 13 Wonderful article! 14 Weird costume choices. 15 Trivia Edit 16 Hinted Romance with Janeway 17 359? 18 Identity crises 19 Scientific Accomplishments 20 Doesn't Include ... 21 Photographic Memory

[edit] Things I'm going to add

• Relationships with Naomi Wildman, Torres and Janeway.
• Seven related details various Seven-centric episodes that I haven't already dealt with: "Day of Honor", "The Raven", "Prey" (mainly the big act of insubordination), "Omega Directive", "One", "Infinite Regress", "Bliss", "Think Tank", "Relativity", "Survival Instinct", "The Voyager Conspiracy", and "Body and Soul".

[edit] Suggestions

• The intro paragraph is very focussed on Mr. and Mrs. Hansen and not Seven. In my opinion, this info should be moved to either another section of the article or to the Hansen's article. -- Mjwilco 22:26, 27 Sep 2004 (CEST)

[edit] bad math

• If Annika Hansen was born in 2348 and assimilated at the age of 6, it would not have been 2356. Is this a Memory Alpha typo or an example of the Voyager writers using bad math? (signed long after statement in response to below) Tyrant 01:37, 12 Mar 2005 (GMT)Tyrant

• The above comments aren't signed & dated, but the problem they point to is a real one. What are the sources for the 2348 and 2356 dates and the "at the age of six" line? If it's a Voyager internal inconsistency, it should be noted on the page as such. If it's a MA mistake, it should be fixed.--Josiah Rowe 23:42, 11 Mar 2005 (GMT)

• The source of Annika being assimialted at six years old comes from "The Raven", where she says, "I had my birthday here. My cake had six candles, and one more to grow on. And then the men came."--Tiberius 01:12, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

It was also confirmed in "Once Upon A Time" and later in the novel "Homecoming"; Seven tells Neelix that she was six when she was assimilated in the former, and Janeway mentions in her debriefing that Seven was assimilated at six in the latter. I'm guessing that her date of birth should be 2350, not 2348. 89.101.37.100 21:40, 21 February 2008 (UTC) Regan.

However, if Annika was born in 2350, then she would have been about three years old when the Hansen's left on that trip. We saw Annika the day before they left on that trip in a flashback in "Dark Frontier", and she didn't look three years old. Even taking into account that Annika doesn't appear to age at all in those three years (we see her just before they are assimilated in that episode as well), Annika is putting together sentecnes in a much more coherent manner than what I would expect from a three year old. If we take her birthdate as 2348, then she'd be five years old at that point, and her grammar is much more suitable. I personally prefer that her birthdate is 2348. The line regarding her birthday cake - "I had my birthday here. My cake had six candles, and one more to grow on. And then the men came." - doesn't neccessarily mean that the Borg came very shortly afterwards. After all, Seven, when she says this line, is remembering events not only from two decades or so previously, but also after having her mind and memories poked around with by the collective. There's no guarantee that the Borg didn't come two years after the event, and the time was compressed by her imperfect recollection of it.--Tiberius 02:43, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

If it's good enough for Seven and Janeway, it should be good enough for us. Age 6 at assimilation. --99.163.50.12 18:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Using the source to justify that same source? Circular logic isn't valid. --Tiberius 23:22, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

It's not the same source. You're right - "The Raven" by itself doesn't prove "the men came" to her 6th birthday party (or soon after - whatever). In the OTHER source, Seven SAYS she was six. Where's the circularity? There isn't any. I wonder where the 2348 birthdate comes from, anyway? My point is - we have the character stating explicitly her age at assimilation. My opinion is that other information that would seem to contradict this does not justify denying "age six at assimilation". The only thing we know about her birthdate is the stardate, which we all by now know can't be correlated with calendar dates or years. So my opinion is that 2348 isn't really her birth year, unless there's some piece of canon somwehere which says that that's when stardate 25479 was. --TribbleFurSuit 01:24, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

I agree. She SAYS she was 6. It's stated onscreen. More than once, by several characters. What more do you want? It doesn't get any more canon than that. I say go with the true onscreen canon, meaning age 6 at assimilation. Her onscreen statement is true canon, not some dubious date calculation done by some fan or a writer. That cannot be used as canon, cause it simply isn't. It doesn't matter that Jeri Ryan was older than the character she played or that the little girls who played Seven were older too. It doesn't matter what the stardate was, the writers themselves have admitted to making mistakes in that half the time. Seven states her age in the series in the episode "The Raven". Her literal words being "I had my birthday here. There was a cake with six candles and one to grow on. Then the men came." Janeway too says it in the episode "The Gift" "Most people don't take their six year old daughter along". And then again by Seven in "Once upon a time" by Neelix. And again in the novel Homecoming by Janeway. There... that's four confirmed statements. That's canon. So her age was 6 at assimilation. Not 8 or 9. But 6. So this is maybe some bad math on the writers part or a mistake on the side of MA. Either way it should be fixed. --Marjolijn 09:17, 7 October 2008 (CET)

Well, three of those statements don't prove anything to do with the date she was assimilated. "Taking a sixyearold" on a three-year trip doesn't automatically mean she was six at the end. We already talked about how the sixth birthday preceded the assimilation, but we don't know by how much. And the novel doesn't count here. Nevertheless: The "Once Upon a Time" statement is canon. So is the stardate. 2348 is not, as far as anyone has been able to show so far. FYI, "six" was changed to "eight" in the article by some annonny back in March 2005. It's not like some consensus was developed here on MA supporting the age of eight "interpretation". Somebody changed it and nobody noticed or thought much of it until now. But before that it was "six". The birth year 2348 has been in there ever since the very first edit. Nobody ever questioned its canonicity. Until now. --TribbleFurSuit 17:37, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Actually, that's not true. Josiah Rowe did question it above, he never got any answer. I think it's time to go back to age six, and to replace 2348 with 2350. --TribbleFurSuit 17:40, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

You know what else: I think we need to get rid of the "June 24" birthday date too. It seems to have been calculated with one of those non-canon online stardate calculators (as if calculation were possible *snicker*), also added by another annonny, and never confirmed. If there's any canon reference, I hope someone knows. --TribbleFurSuit 17:45, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Here I go, then. --TribbleFurSuit 18:16, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Seven crying over One's death?

I modified this bit:

• Seven mourned [One] as if she had lost a son, crying for the first time.

I removed the reference that she cried. I remember that she was indeed quite upset over his death, but I'm positive she didn't actually cry. Randee15 17:05, 20 Jan 2005 (CET)

I just watched Drone. Seven was definitely upset, but I didn't see any tears. Little Fuzzy Cygnet 01:43, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Pictures of Seven's body

Not a lot of pictures here show Seven from the neck down. I think they would help the article a lot.

I'm saying this out of a desire to illustrate her (5?) various futuristic costumes, of course, in relation to uniform and costuming notes in the article describing them as "infamous". -- Captain Mike K. Bartel^talk 01:55, 4 Jul 2005 (UTC)

This is not exactly addressing your point, but I remember that not long ago there was a picture in the article of Seven as a full borg drone, which showed her from the waist up, looking to the side. Much better than the picture of her as a full borg that there is now in the article. Whatever happened to that? --Timo Takalo 21:45, 15 Sep 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Explaining removal to young naive 26 year olds

I removed this comment:

It is likely that Seven was placed in a maturation chamber, perhaps explaining the age difference between Seven and Jeri Ryan.

Jeri Ryan was born in 1968, and Seven of Nine was born in 2348. That means when Seven premiered in 1997 (2374), Jeri was 29, and she was playing a 26-year-old. I personally don't find that a very big age difference, at least not one worth noting in such a way.--Tim Thomason 02:41, 2 Sep 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Searching for Seven of Nine

Doing a search on memory alpha for 'Seven of Nine' or 'Seven' yields absolutely no results. What's up with that? --Timo Takalo 20:45, 16 Sep 2005 (UTC)

Seconded. Wtf?

Both "Seven" and "Nine" are probably stop words, which means that you can't search for them using a MediaWiki search engine because they are too "common."--Tim Thomason 07:07, 3 Oct 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Chronology

We might be able to get some dates between 2356 and 2373 if we check some of the Borg flash back episodes. Perhaps "Survival Instinct"? Jaf 18:23, 17 Sep 2005 (UTC)Jaf

[edit] The Raven

How did it get to the Delta Quadrant? The article and common sense both say that the Raven was assimilated clear back in the Alpha Quadrant.. but in the eponymous episode, the wreck of the Raven is in B'omar space??

In VOY: "Barge of the Dead", they temporarily believe they found a shard of klingon metal. B'Elanna rationalizes that "the borg probably assimilated a bird of prey in the alpha quadrant, and blew the spare parts out the air lock on their way back to the delta quadrant". Maybe that's what happened? - AJHalliwell 06:02, 3 Oct 2005 (UTC)

The USS Raven was swept up into a transwarp conduit while following a Borg cube in the Romulan Neutral Zone and ended up in the Delta Quadrant.--Tim Thomason 07:07, 3 Oct 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Deep Space 4 Database Information

Greetings, while watching "The Gift", Kathryn Janeway showed Chakotay a biographical file of Annika Hansen/Seven of Nine (around 7 minutes into the episode). The words seem hard to read, but I am sure somebody with a keen eye could read the information. Some of this information may be useful for the article. - Adm. Enzo Aquarius 23:08, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] A Swedish Borg...

Well, Annika Hansen suggests that Seven is originally Swedish (at least from her father's side). I'm asking myself whether this is in response to First Contact, where Lily Sloane says when first hearing about the Borg: "Sounds Swedish." and later on "Definitely not Swedish." So they might have introduced a Swedish person here in response to this.

Actually, "Hansen" is more of a norwegian name. Had it been "Hansson", then it would have been typically swedish. /Druj

The surname "Hansen" is used in Norway, Germany and Denmark, and the name "Annika" is used in Germany, Sweden and Finland. So it seams that "Annika Hansen" is from Germany. The Borg: "Sounds Swedish." was a joke referring to Björn Borg, a swedish tennis player. Lt. Commander Kacper 21:23, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

• The Borg comes from the word Cyborg an orgainic creature that is enhanced with or replaced with artifical ones to improve or extend the life of that creature, while the human name of Seven of name is said to be German it is not uncommen for other countrys and luagguges to use names not native to them- 124.178.209.103 00:21, 11 June 2007 (UTC)! =P

[edit] The dates of the Raven's voyage

The chronology section says that the Raven left in 2354 and wa assimilated in 2356. However, Seven has said that they spent three years following the Borg at close range, and "Dark Frontier" establishes that the Hansens were searching for the Borg for 8 months before finding them. This means that from the time that the hansens started searching for the borg to the time that they were assimilated was at least 3 years and 8 months. It is impossible to fit such a period in between 2354 and 2356. it is much more likely that the Hansens left to search for the Borg in 2353, the year before what is mentioned in this article. Unless anyone objects in the next few days, i'll change the article as well as the 2354 page to reflect this.--Tiberius 01:10, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wonderful article!

Hi, just wanted to stop by and say what a great article this is! I came here through a link at Seven's article in Wikipedia, and boy, no comparison. This is brilliant. So lots of kudos to the people that made this possible! :) Raystorm (at Wikipedia) 30 Dic 2006

[edit] Weird costume choices.

Is it just me, or does Seven's outfit always seem,... impractical? In many episodes you can see her in 3-inch heels, which would be incredibly painful to work in, considering that she never seems to sit or lie down. It's also fairly disturbing that her boobs are ALWAYS clearly visible through her, uh, spandex? It's a wonder that any of the male crewmen got any work done.

Well, both the original Trek, and enerything scince, at least one female character is dressed in impractical, sexist clothes. I agree though, it is amazing Voyager lasted that long with her wandering around the ship in that. -Someone to lazy to sign in

[edit] Trivia Edit

I personally asked Claudia Christian at a recent convention she was a guest of if it were true that she auditioned for the role of Seven of Nine. She denied it in no uncertain terms, and thus I've removed it from the main page unless someone can back it up a with a citation.

[edit] Hinted Romance with Janeway

Should there be a mention of this in the article?

If I recall correctly, I heard that the romance between them was written out of the scripts after the two actors laid it on a bit too heavilly (As in the missing pip intro scene). I don't think it is worth a mention since it never developed. Talon Lardner 03:15, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

I think there should be a mention of it in the article. I know that it was never developed on screen but that's why they call it subtext. It is supposed to be subtle. Remember that the character of Seven of Nine was originally intended to be the first main gay character on Star Trek. The producers at Paramount chickened out of it just before they started shooting but it was confirmed to be true by a member of the Production team. The writers and actors decided to at least keep some of the original story in the show. And the subtext that was displayed on screen really gave the character a certain dept. It is important to the show and the character even if it was never fully developed on screen. I believe it is worth mentioning, even if it's only trivia, because some people wouldn't know of it just by watching the show. It is very subtle. Marjolijn 12:34, 10 September 2007 (CET)

"Was originally intended to", "the producers chickened out", "was confirmed by a member of the team" - all of this is really vague. If you can cite a reliable resource for any of this, it could of course be added to the article, but at the moment this is just unconfirmed hearsay. -- Cid Highwind 11:18, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Alright, follow this link [1]. It's where I got most of my information. I only heard about most of this years later because the show aired much later in my country. Other things I heard about second hand only recently from people living in the USA who supported the Voyager Visibility Project. Furthermore evidence of it is noticeable in the show itself. The cast and crew tried to keep some of it in the show. The subtext is clearly there in the show in the fourth and fifth season, after that it drops off pretty much to nothing. There is a clear connection to the rising amount of attention to the subtext and the disappearing of it in the show. Showing that the producers once again ordered the cast and crew to stop what they were suggesting. -- Marjolijn 22.36, 11 September 2007 (CET)

A link to another wiki is not a valid source. fail. 67.242.192.82 11:23, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

So what's the conclusion of this discussion? I'll gladly add it to page myself as soon as the go ahead is given. I've done my best to give referenced sources and since the hinted romance has been a much discussed subject about the Seven of Nine character, I do believe it is worth mentioning. Many will agree that it was something that was present in the show, even if it was just subtext. Therefore I say that since this is a reference source to Star Trek and all that the franchise entails it should indeed be mentioned. I state firmly that since it was present in the show it should at least be mentioned. -- Marjolijn 23.30, 22 November (CET)

Well....? Doesn't anyone have an opinion on this? Should it be mentioned and if yes then were? Usually people on MA are quick to give a response or make the right decision following whatever the consensus in the group is, so why not here? Surely we can come together and decide this? I've done my best to give proper referenced sources as requested in order to confirm its existence. I feel I have succeeded in this (unless others disagree and if so please state why) so I say it should be added, nay, must be added. MA prides itself for being the best in-depth online Star Trek Encyclopedia so let's continue doing just that. Please respond so a decision can be made. Whether or not it's yes or no, then at least we'll have discussed it and made the decision as a group of peers. --Marjolijn 11:11, 11 December 2007 (CET)

What episode is the "missing pip intro scene" in? 65.185.148.131 09:08, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

[{e|Someone to Watch Over Me}} TribbleFurSuit 03:02, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] 359?

The article states that there is evidence Seven was present at the Battle of Wolf 359. Where is this evidence from? I think it should be removed, as I don't recall anything like that...--Tiberius 04:30, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Actually there is some evidence she was present at Wolf 359. In the episode "Infinite Regress", one of the personalities that surfaces from Seven's subconsciousness is a woman who was searching for her missing son who's ship was at Wolf 359. This means that Seven must have assimilated this woman at or near Wolf 359. Since the Borg Queen was present during that Borg incursion and since she obviously somehow escaped the destruction of the cube, it can be assumed that another Borg ship rendezvoused with the cube and then returned to the Delta Quadrant carrying the Queen and possibly several of her drones with them. Seven's Unimatrix was 01, meaning the Queen's Unimatrix, therefore she may have been a member of the Queen's party during Wolf 359. It's a little bit of a stretch, I know, but it could very well have been the writers intention to make it appear as if Seven had been present at the Battle at Wolf 359. --Marjolijn 12:50, 11 November 2007 (CET)

It is never stated that the personalities Seven manifests in "Infinite Regress" are people she herself assimilated. The dialog is as follows:

DOCTOR: During your time with the Borg, the Collective assimilated hundreds of different species. All of those neural patterns were integrated into the Hive Mind.

SEVEN: Of course.

DOCTOR: That means they're in your mind too, stored within your cortical implants. Dormant until now.

Those personalities could have come from anywhere, not necessarily from places where Seven was present. - Bridge 15:47, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Given this, I'm going to remove the claim that Seven was at Wolf 359.--Tiberius 02:40, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

But he has a point with Seven's Unimatrix. --81.182.33.160 00:18, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

That doesn't neccessarily mean that Unimatrix 1 was on that particular Borg Cube. I think it's more likely that Unimatrix 1 is in the giant unicomplex we saw in Dark Frontier, and the Queen left to go to Earth.--Tiberius 23:29, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Anyone assimilated by any borg drone anywhere at all would be known by all other borg drones. Hence the collective. – The preceding unsigned comment was added by Vince47 (talk • contribs) .

[edit] Identity crises

For me Identity crises means B'Elanna Torres's struggle with her human and klingon part, not 3 episodes (2 of them has almost all the crew with "Identity crises"). --81.182.33.160 00:24, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

I am not sure if this is the place to say this but I dont know how anyone can like anything about Seven. She is cold, frigid, distanced, unfriendly, rude. She is not even remotely charming, or interesting; she never has anything intelligent to say (outside of technical stuff). She is like a bad mechanical version of a Vulcan. I bet if you cut her, she'd bleed ice cubes. Unlike all of the other Star Trek characters, she has absolutely no redeeming qualities. I just realized that the other day. I dont understand why Janeway is so infatuated with her or why anyone in the crew is trying so hard and has done so much for her. Even Tuvok has more charm. If that's what the writers intended, then good job I guess. The only times i liked her was when she was someone else. – Distantlycharmed 00:21, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Generally, posts on the article talk pages must be germane to the article itself, and not have personal observations about them(no matter how valid). A Forum discussion would be the best place for such a post. --31dot 00:30, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Scientific Accomplishments

It has many unimportant data:

   -adapting the quantum slipstream drive is nice, but it's not Seven's accomplishment that Harry sent a message
   -omega particles: containing them rocks, but she didn't stabilize them, it was spontaneus 

And there's a lot more. My question is: I'm the only one who sees this as unneceseary? --81.182.33.160 00:34, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Doesn't Include ...

... the abilities she retained from her Borg physiology after separating from the Collective, like her increased strength/agility, extra-Human vision characteristics, ability to walk through force fields, nano-probe tendrils, etc. (24.31.118.241 01:03, 16 March 2008 (UTC))

[edit] Photographic Memory

Is there any mention to Seven's photographic (eidetic) memory developing when she was a child, or was this an attribute she received as a result of being in the Collective? --Kahwless 04:06, 18 June 2009 (UTC)