Talk:Time's Arrow, Part II (episode)

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Contents 1 Episode talk page 1.1 Maintenance links 2 Nitpick 3 Temporal Ethics 4 Plot Hole 5 Best of both worlds... 6 Removed comment 7 Captain Picard

[edit] Nitpick

In "Q Who?," Q mentioned that he had dealings with Guinan "two centuries ago" and even said "Guinan, is that the name you go by now?" In this episode in the 19th century before she met Q, she is still known as "Guinan."--Reginald Barclay 14:33, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

So, she may've used another name when she previously encountered Q. Irrelevant nitpicking. -- Sulfur 14:42, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps, because she is an El-Aurian (forgive me if I mispelled that) on Earth, she may have changed her name and id every now and then. For example, she spends time from 1850-1900 as Madame Guinan, 1900-1950 by Random Name 1, and so forth until it was recognized that she was an alien. This probably did not happen until after 2063. Also, El-Aurians are warp capable, and she may have encountered Q in some distant corner of the galaxy. We know Guinan is cautious of her suroundings, so she may have given a false name for protective purposes. I don't know if that made any sense, but that's always been my explanation.– Nmajmani 00:13, 9 April 2007 (UTC)Nmajmani

Exactly why is pointing out blatant inconsistencies in the series "irrelevant"? I think the fact that the show's creators couldn't keep their characters' back stories consistent is absolutely relevant.

This has been discussed utterly to death at Memory Alpha talk:Nitpick#Nitpicks/Bloopers, and then made a policy. --OuroborosCobra ^talk 02:51, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Temporal Ethics

It seems odd to me that Guinan refused to help Riker make a decision to resolve the crisis at the end of this episode, but in "Time's Arrow" she went out of her way to make sure Picard made the decision to join the away team to Devidia II. Suck My Wake 03:32, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

She knew that he simply wouldn't have gone on that away mission normally. Since she knew that he was there in the past, and that he wouldn't normally go, she must have needed to "help" history along. I'm not saying it makes sense dramatically... but it makes sense from her perspective as a character. – Hossrex 05:06, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Plot Hole

Toward the end of the episode, after Clemens has (off-camera) used the walking stick to return to the past, Riker and Worf are apparently expecting Picard to show up, with Riker saying something like "If Clemens made it back, Captain Picard should have been here by now." Worf responds, "We have no way of knowing if Mr. Clemens was successful." Actually, they did have a way of knowing that, though not of knowing of Picard's fate. All they had to do was consult their Federation database to see what it said about Samuel Clemens -- either "he died in 1910" or "he vanished in 1893 and was never heard of again."

Also, this delay was "explained" by the fact that the walking stick placed Clemens on Market Street, whence he had to make his way to the cavern on the Presidio. A la Kirk's return in "The City on the Edge of Forever" ("What happened, sir? You only left a moment ago"), shouldn't Picard have appeared in the twenty-fourth century immediately after Clemens left the twenty-fourth century? (Right, that wouldn't have been as "dramatic.")

[edit] Best of both worlds...

* In TNG: "The Best of Both Worlds", Guinan tells Picard that the Borg's incursion into Federation space would not mark the end of humanity, which Picard remarks she says with "remarkable assuredness." While Guinan claims she can do so due to her own people's experience with the Borg, the events of this episode would suggest that she knew that humanity would defeat the Borg, since Picard had not yet gone back in time to the 19th century to care for her in the cavern.

Again, speculation and doesn't belong. I'll wait until a higher up comments before removing it. --Morder 09:09, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

I may just be a normal user, but I think it is pure speculation. Especially for this article. If it would have been the Best of Both Worlds-article then it would be due for a reconsideration. But for this page it is just speculation. I vote for a remove. -- Rom Ulan 09:45, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

I agree, and have removed the comment, since it has been three months.--31dot 22:57, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Removed comment

Removed the following:

• Data losing his head in the past only to have it reattached to his body in the future is parodied in an episode of Futurama, "Roswell That Ends Well", in which the robot character Bender has his head fall off in 1947 only to be retrieved more than 1,050 years later. This theme itself may be reference to Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy in which the robot character Marvin is buried for thousands of years after traveling to the past.

as the latter portion is speculative without a citation, and the former part is not relevant to Star Trek.--31dot 22:54, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Captain Picard

Can someone explain to me just how Captain Picard could not remember meeting Guinan in the past? – The preceding unsigned comment was added by 205.188.116.202 (talk).

Because he hadn't yet. The Guinan that was in the 1890s was from Picard's past. The Picard in the 1890s was from the time that we are following him in, therefore he would NOT have met her until he reaches the point in time where he travels back. Make sense? – The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.182.8.21 (talk).