Talk:USS Kelvinedit this page

From Memory Alpha, the free Star Trek reference

Contents 1 Survey vessel 2 800 People? 3 shipclass? 4 single warp engine 5 at template

[edit] Survey vessel

I dont think that was mentioned in dialog, was it? --Alan 01:38, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

I don't recall hearing it either, but I was mainly taking notes on visual things for the wiki. Should we put this on the "check on this" list? -- Captain MKB 02:02, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Well, unless it was something mumbled somewhere, it wasn't spoken on audio. --Alan 02:04, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

It's mentioned on the official Star Trek website. Though if that is considered canon by MA's standards i don't know. Kellanium 02:36, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

There's the official site, plus the fact it performed as a survey vessel in the film. --From Andoria with Love 03:51, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Didn't they all... --Alan 03:53, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

True enough. --From Andoria with Love 04:10, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

How do we know what they were performing as? And how does that firmly establish the vessel class? Given that the ship was so heavily loaded with people maybe they were in the middle of some sort of transport mission.--Hribar 13:43, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

The Official Website for the movie says it was a survey vessel, and no one has made any conjectures as to vessel class yet. It was a survey vessel, end of story. Kellanium 21:15, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

The website is not canon, end of story. --OuroborosCobra ^talk 07:03, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

[edit] 800 People?

I understand that this number is given on screen, but it does not make sense in terms of what we know of other ships. Enterprise Prime had a capacity of 200 people as stated in "The Cage". After its refit, Enterprise Prime only had 400 crew. It was established in the script for "Yesterday's Enterprise" that the Enterprise-C had 700 people, which makes sense when you look at it compared to the Enterprise-D which was stated to have over 1000 people on board at one point. Is there something else going on or is it possible that Pike was exaggerating the number of people Kirk's father saved to increase the challenge? IndyK1ng 02:12, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

It is what it is unless it is contradicted. --Alan 02:00, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Exactly... I don't remember any part of the movie that established the size of the ship. If they said it had a large crew, why shouldn't we believe them? -- Captain MKB 02:02, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

We shouldn't believe them because historically speaking ships get bigger over time. That's what I was establishing above. There are exceptions based on need, but it makes no sense to make what must have been a massive ship for the time only for your next greatest vessel to be a fifth or half the size. IndyK1ng 02:12, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

So? He said 800. For that matter, I can speculate too... they were transferring a shipload of refugees or colonists, etc...if we don't know the circumstances, we shouldn't be trying to justify what was stated. --Alan 02:15, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

If they were moving colonists, would they have had enough shuttles to get everyone off? Same with refugees. What's bothering me is that it just goes unexplained. The ship also appears to be smaller, just judging from what is shown, it seems to have fewer decks and be shorter. I really don't like that this is going unchallenged and unexplained when it doesn't make sense. IndyK1ng 02:59, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

But Memory Alpha isn't the place to "challenge" something said on screen. There are plenty of Star Trek forums where you can argue about what does and doesn't make sense; Memory Alpha is here to record what was given in the fiction as it stands, in the form of an online encyclopedia. I don't think that MA is in the business of ignoring something given clearly in dialogue just because it doesn't fit our theories of how things work in Star Trek. If the evidence doesn't fit the theory, you change the theory, not the evidence. —Josiah Rowe 02:30, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

IndyKing, older ships might have had less automated equipment and needed more crew to operate all of it. And, if transporters were relatively new at the time, they might have had enough shuttles for everybody, no matter what the people were doing there.

And your assumption about the size of the crew or the size of the ship having anything to do with the capabilities is fairly unfounded. After all, the aircraft carrier Enterprise has 10 times as many crewmembers as the NCC-1701, but that doesn't make a boat 10 times more advanced than a starship, does it? But they still pack those 5,000 people into a pretty small space on the US ship, even compared to any of the Trek Enterprises. -- Captain MKB 02:33, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

I had already come to the conclusion the ship would have enough shuttles for a normal crew complement. I was questioning if it would have enough if they were transporting more than the usual number of people, like if they were transporting refugees or colonists. In that case I was directly challenging speculation, not stated fact. It also makes sense that any ship which doesn't have escape pods will have enough shuttles for evacuation since transporters can go down or be blocked, such as when they evacuated the Enterprise-E where they would not have been able to transport anyone. In that case they had escape pods for crew to leave the ship by, otherwise it would make sense for them to have enough shuttles. As for Memory-Alpha being the place to challenge established screen facts, I have seen places elsewhere on Memory-Alpha where speculation is brought up for items that don't make much sense or conflict with other information, such as the Borg article. As for the crew complements of the Enterprise aircraft carrier and the Constitution-Class Enterprise, it is apparent that Starfleet has a history of giving crew more private space than the US Navy does. Those ships are really packed and it is established in Enterprise that crew have decent size quarters about the size of a small dorm room. Speaking of dorms, organizations such as Starfleet have a tendency to give their trainees the same amount of private space as they would have in the field. This makes sense since they want their trainees to be acclimated to their living conditions in the future. Judging from the size of Uhura's quarters, the crew quarters on the Enterprise are actually fairly big for such a vessel. Also the Kelvin had families on board which means their quarters would be the size of an apartment and assuming Starfleet policy wasn't different before the 24th Century Prime, they would not have been packed into crowded living quarters. All I'm saying is that these numbers should not be taken unquestionably. IndyK1ng 02:59, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Noted, nevertheless, what was said was said and that's how things work around here. --Alan 02:57, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Sorry I keep forgetting to sign my posts, I'm new to wiki article discussion editing. IndyK1ng 03:00, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Assuming the stats are correct, the new Enterprise is larger than the Enterprise-D. Since the Kelvin is possibly a variant, it is conceivable it has a similar crew size.- JustPhil 03:22, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Guys, there's really no point in arguing about this or speculating. The fact is that Pike said there were 800 people aboard the ship which were saved by George Kirk's actions. This is now canon, meaning there's nothing that can be done about it. --From Andoria with Love 03:25, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Pike said that Kirk saved 800 lives that day. He didn't say that they were all on Kelvin.--Hribar 19:00, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Rrrrrrright.... you keep tellin' yourself that, mate. ;-) --From Somewhere with Love

Where the heck are you? :) Well, those 800 lives were actually on life boats. — Morder 02:43, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Hey, I'm all for them coming from the Kelvin. All 800. But there is certainly wiggle room for nitpickers. For those arguing that they didn't have enough shuttles... I once saw ten people stuffed into a phone booth. As for the Kelvin- when push came to shove, I bet they'd found a way.--Hribar 01:23, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

[edit] shipclass?

Did anyone catch the shipclass of the Kelvin? I did not hear it's name spoken in the film, but maybe anyone saw it on an okudagram I didn't see, or maybe given from an official (read MA-permitted) source? --Rom Ulan 08:30, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

I've checked both MB and the EU wikis and yeah, I got nothing. I think Abrams is trying to drive us trekkies mad. :p--Kross^{Transmit on Holonet?} 03:18, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Abraaaaaaaams! --Rom Ulan 20:43, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

It looks like it may have been that universes version of the Hermes or Saladin class ships. But who knows, may just be some unknown class that they wont reveal the name of.--Theta][Sigma

Keep in mind, the Kelvin originates from the prime timeline. It was in existence when the timeline was altered by Nero, so it's not unique to that universe. --From Andoria with Love 02:18, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

As with the Enterprise there may have been a (as yet unseen) dedication plaque made for the Kelvin. If this could be spotted on screen one may be able to read the class name (assuming it states the class name).--Hribar 02:51, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

It has a striking resembelence to the Apollo-class doesn't it? (92.238.249.121 22:18, January 5, 2010 (UTC))

To my eyes, the Kelvin-type is a modified Ranger-class with one nacelle, instead of two.– Throwback 00:03, January 6, 2010 (UTC)

Throwback & user 92... : please, stay on topic. The Ranger class and Apollo class are not canon and aren't relevant to this wiki or this talk page. it's great that you've followed fan fiction and Star trek games, but it has nothing to do with our discussion here. -- Captain MKB 02:07, January 8, 2010 (UTC)

[edit] single warp engine

Is it safe to say the Kelvin is the first canon ship we see that has only 1 warp engine/nacelle? (Not counting ships seen in minor background graphics or okudagrams.) Or were there kitbashed ships from DS9 with 1 or 3 warp engines that we're counting as first? Starfleetjedi 06:28, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Well, there's the Freedom-class. --OuroborosCobra ^talk 06:32, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Which pretty much falls under "minor background"... Starfleetjedi 07:47, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

At that point, it starts becoming a matter of personal opinion and a subjective, not objective, difference. Who decides what is "major" and "minor?" The fact of the matter is that it isn't the first Federation ship shown with only one engine nacelle. --OuroborosCobra ^talk 13:55, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

So, it is not the first shipclass that is canon to have only one nacelle. But I think it is safe to say that it is the first non-minor ship seen with only one nacelle. In that i am not counting those background-ships as those seen in wreckage of battle of wolf 359, but only clearly depicted ships, as miranda-class, excelsior, and bla bla...

Again, that gets into a subjective judgment on what constitutes "minor" --OuroborosCobra ^talk 03:10, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Exactly. If we take things as they are it's not the first. — Morder 03:15, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Less subjectively, it's the first single-nacelle vessel with the interiors shown onscreen. -- Captain MKB 23:01, January 5, 2010 (UTC)

[edit] at template

I added the {{at|nt}} template to the page simply because the majority of the page takes place in the alternate reality, however, the header "alternate reality" implies that it mainly exists in the prime reality. But virtually nothing is known about it in the prime reality. Seems like the wrong header but not having the header seems to be a mistake. I might not be articulating this the way I want but hopefully you all get what I'm trying to say. :) — Morder 07:24, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

I would say keep the {{at|nt}} template since everything short of the description of the ship and crew is from the alternate reality, as Morder pointed out. Also, the specifications info should probably be moved to Kelvin type. --From Andoria with Love 07:28, 10 June 2009 (UTC)