Talk:Undeveloped Star Trek episodesedit this page

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[edit] Possible TAS addition

I just stumbled on this brilliant discussion of the Kzinti in non-canon by Kobi, and it mentioned the original story Larry Niven submitted instead of "The Slaver Weapon", called "The Borderland of Sol" (later expanded by Niven into a Known Space novella).

I think this would be an excellent addition as a never produced TAS story, but I'd like to be sure about the details first. A google search for the source of the anecdote suggests it comes from a book called "Playgrounds of the Mind", a collection of notes by Niven. I know it's a bit of a longshot, but does anyone have this book, and if so, could he or she post this info? Capricorn 18:07, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Um, try asking Kobi, maybe? --Alan 04:28, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

I had Jimmy Diggs ask Niven about the Slaver Weapon/Borderland thing last year and he forwarded the answer to me:

• Email from Jimmy Diggs - 17 Nov 2006 20:08 UTC
• In the meantime, here is Larry Niven's response to your question:
  • I did write "The Slaver Weapon" from "The Soft Weapon at the request of either Gene Rodenberry or Dorothy Fontana, I cannot now remember which. I had already tried several other stories on them. "The Borderland of Sol" wasn't rewritten from anything; it first appeared just as you found it. Tell Jan Hi for me. Larry Niven

So I'm not sure if mentioning Borderland as an unproduced script quite fits, because he also writes "My first attempt (quantum black holes) became the basis for 'Borderland of Sol.' " (Niven, L (1991): "The Lost Ideas", in: Playgrounds of the Mind.) -- Kobi 13:17, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

First of all, sorry for not directly contacting you Kobi. As Alan said, it was the obvious thing to do, but for some reason I didn't think of it. Anyway thanks for your reply. Now, the way I see it is this:

• As for your last paragraph, you don't think borderland is a valid source because you think of the novel. My fault, I messed up in my initial post, assuming the "borderland of sol" was the title of both the TAS proposal as the novella. From your mail, the TAS proposal seems to have been called "Quantum black Holes" (quantum black holes are also a significant plot point in borderland, that's probably where the confusion comes from)". Nonetheless, imho that changes nothing, then it's the "quantum black holes" story that deserves a mention.
• However, still more info on the story seems necessary, as though the star trek script might have evolved in the borderland of sol novella, significant differences most likely exist in the story. The best recollection of the writing proces I found on this [1] TAS site:

(Quote from the Slaver weapon synopsis) As related by Larry Niven in his 1991 book Playgrounds of the Mind, in 1973, Dorothy C. Fontana asked Niven to write an episode of the animated STAR TREK series. His first story treatment involved quantum black holes and the Outsiders - a very alien species which were built like a black cat-o'-nine-tails using photoelectric metabolism. Fontana advised him that the story wouldn't work. His second attempt proved to be "too bloody." While at Gene Roddenberry's house one afternoon, Gene suggested that Larry Niven rewrite his short story "The Soft Weapon" which had been reprinted in 1968 in Neutron Star a collection of Larry Niven's stories. This third attempt became the finished episode "The Slaver Weapon." Interestingly, Niven's first idea which involved quantum black holes, formed the basis for his story "The Borderland of Sol" which was first published in the January 1975 issue of Analog magazine (see left). "The Borderland of Sol" was such an excellent story, that it won the 1976 Hugo award (pictured right) for best novelette.

• At this point I'm very much confused, as both in this account and your last paragraph Niven claims that borderland was based on his earlyer pitch for TAS, while in your mail he claims: "The Borderland of Sol" wasn't rewritten from anything". Though I might be missing some context in said mail. Any insights? Capricorn 14:13, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Citations

Can we get a citation on these? I think it's warranted so that someone off the street can't just put their name and say "yeah, i did an episode". — Morder (talk) 01:46, October 20, 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, "undeveloped episode" could mean just about anything, including an idea any one of us might have had ten years ago. I think the criteria to be listed here needs to be fleshed out- is merely submitting a script that ended up being rejected by TPTB considered an "undeveloped" episode? How far down the chain does it have to go? Whatever it is, anything listed should be cited.--31dot 02:13, October 20, 2009 (UTC)

I added a PNA-cite to the page. From the introduction, I'm guessing most can be traced to Trek: The Unauthorized Behind-The-Scenes Story of The Next Generation and The Trouble With Tribbles, but as it is there is no way for a reader to know whether each entry comes from these or somewhere else.– Cleanse ^{( talk | contribs )} 10:22, March 15, 2010 (UTC)