Talk:Vulcan language

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[edit] Geometric figures

Actually, the geometric figures written language was also seen in Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home. After Spock takes his test, and Amanda comes in, you can see them near the ceiling on the wall. Perhaps their a ceremonial langauge of some kind, to be in a temple on Mount Seleya. -AJHalliwell 15:30, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Then again they could be decorative with no meaning at all. This is the reason it never made it onto my Supernova site. --TOSrules 02:41, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I think it is supposed to script, as per the fact that is it on the hull of a vulcan ship, with the English translation directly below it. --Rubic code 12:55 21 September 2005 (GMT)

A possible explanation could be that the rectangular script is meant to be authoratative (thus its hard edges and bold font) whereas the more fluid print is meant to be either intellectual or personal. Per example, in Japanese, before the end of World War II, hiragana was an alphabet that females wrote in. Katakana was the male alphabet. These kinds of distinctions are not unheard of, and could explain the two major types of Vulcan script. The rectangular script appears in official places, as headings or curt statement: ship hulls, temples, etc. The fluid scripts appear primarily in letters or on scientific or historical documents. --The Rev 01:05, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pna

This page is not written in the proper perspective, nor is it formatted correctly. --Alan del Beccio 04:42, 10 Aug 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Cleaning up...

Phonological notes

Doubling an individual vowel lengthens the sound, but doesn't change it.

Consonants -same as English except:

c -- not usually used, either k or s will be used depending on the sound | ch -- always hard as "ch" in cheese | kh -- close to the "ch" in German Bach or Scottish loch | j -- not usually used | th -- always hard like "th" in thank | y -- always a consonant, as "y" in yellow | zh -- like the s in measure or j in French|

Doubled consonants:

ll -- drawn out, often slightly trilled | mm -- at the end of a word, almost like "muh" | nn -- at the end of a word, almost like "nuh" | rr -- drawn out, often slightly rolled | ss -- drawn out, almost like a slight hiss |

Vulcan includes consonant combinations that never occur in English. There are no silent letters, you must pronounce all letters.

Accentuation:

In words with 2 syllables, the stress gererally falls on the first syllable or vowel.

In words with 3 or more syllables, the stress usually falls on the second syllable or vowel.

...has all been moved here, and removed from the main page. I highly doubt this involves in anyway the Vulcan spoken on Star Trek: Enterprise.- AJHalliwell 04:38, 19 Aug 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Missing lines from TMP

The Vulcan dialog at Gol at the beginning of ST:TMP is not rendered completely here. What about the missing pieces? Are they not well-articulated enough to transscribe? I am sorry I can't help here myself, but I have great trouble resolving the dialogue into articulate words - that's for people with more talent for languages than I have.

It would be cool to have a transcription of the Vulcan line saying "Now receive from us the symbol of total logic" because that line contains the Vulcan word for logic.

--Skon 13:13, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] What?

Regarding the latest revision here, exactly where does this information come from? Is it a personal observation? Does it come from a novel or some reference work? In any case, in doesn't appear to be canon. --From Andoria with Love 15:55, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

It looks to me it is from a fanon "Vulcan Language Institute". --OuroborosCobra ^talk 16:05, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Canon vs non-canon

Talking with Jorg today, it appears that two of the translations of entries on this list are not canon, those for "Broken Bow" and "Bounty". Those entries are listed below:

Ponfo miran: Go to hell.

- ENT: "Broken Bow"

Ti'amah!: Let me go!; T'Pol said this repeatedly while walking along the walls of the decontamination chamber during her artificially triggered pon farr.

- ENT: "Bounty"

The first entry was submitted by Mike Sussman, and as such, I've added a note on it to suit. The second entry was added by Mr. Sussman as "untranslated. May be offensive." It was recently changed based on (I believe) the fanon Vulcan Language Institute dictionary. I've changed it back, and added a comment about Mr. Sussman's comments. After all, better to have real production information from a production guy rather than fan speculation. At least, that's my take on it. -- Sulfur 21:18, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

I have a minor disagreement with what got added to my edit this morning.

"This was not translated on-screen, and Mike Sussman commented that it may not have been translated because it might have been intended to be an offensive comment."

I'm sorry, but if you actually watch the episode, T'Pol is pressing up against the walls, she says the phrase a few times in Vulcan, and then she says "Let me out" in the same exact tone in English while she's still pressing against the walls. When you look at that objectively, somehow "fuck me" or anything else vulgar doesn't really fit the context. – The preceding unsigned comment was added by Captain X (talk • contribs) .

You still are speculating, not stating a "fact" written in black and white in canon. --OuroborosCobra ^talk 08:57, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

This was based on an original script that someone purchased as far as the spelling, and the translation was based on a note on the script. But like I said, there's no real speculation to it, it's plainly obvious what was said without anyone saying so just based on what was in the episode, which is most definately canon. Seriously, watch the scene again. Could she really be saying anything else just based on how she's acting. The context suggests anything but. Captain X

Yes, she could. Any number of other things, even in context. Remember, she wasn't thinking straight or acting rational. --OuroborosCobra ^talk 16:31, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Actually, Captain X, the script from the Vulcan Language people may have been purchased, but Mike Sussman was one of the producers and writers on Enterprise. As such, no matter what, if he states something as "fact", I'd be more inclined to use his comments than a script that was purchased that had notes on it. For all we know, one of the other actors was told to treat her comments as saying "let me go," regardless of what was really intended by the original author of the screenplay. And regardless, it's still speculation because those words have never been seen in Trek canon otherwise, and thus... it's all speculation as to what they might mean. -- Sulfur 17:09, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Right, so you'll just ignore what you or anyone else can see with their own two eyes. I was under the imperssion that what appeared on screen was canon, but that must not be the case if you;re willing to ignore the obvious just because there wasn't an actual subtitle there. Yeah, I can totally see her begging Phlox to give it to her in Vulcan, then without changing her tone or actions begging him to let her out of that confined space ... not. -- Captain X

What is on screen is that she said Vulcan words, and what they sounded like. That is canon. There were no subtitles, or translation from Phlox. Your translation is not on screen. It is not canon. She said some words after that, and it is possible they are the same words, just in English, but it is also possible they aren't. It is not canon that they are the same, it is only speculation that they are the same. That is the Memory Alpha standard. --OuroborosCobra ^talk 18:46, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

In that case you better throw out "Kroykah" too, because there was never a subtitle for it, and it was never explained on screen as having a particuliar meaning. After all, we only get that from T'Pau holding hout her hand and the way she said it. But since body language and tone don't count according to you, I guess we better put a little note on there about how it's just speculation. -- Captain X

But naturally no one wants to hold the other series to the same standard, right? -- Captain X

The word "Ti'amah" sounds like the Taishanese swear words "Diu na ma", which means "Fuck your mother" (Taishanese is the dialect of Taishan City, Guangdong Province, China. Formerly, the city was called the Xinning District and was the home of the ancestors of many if not most Chinese Americans. I am of Taishanese extraction myself.) Perhaps, Sussman, the other writer, Phyllis Strong, or either of the people with story credit, Rick Berman or Brannon Braga, knew someone of Taishanese extraction and decided to put it in the script. -- Astrophysicophile ^talk 23:23, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

An interesting theory, considering that there is a possibly Yiddish phrase passing for Vulcan in STIII (see note below) that translates to what the subtitles say. Unfortunately we have no subtitle to "Ti'amah" to confirm it. Vulcan613 15:17, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Thank you. I am glad you find my theory interesting. However, if it were true, then we would have no subtitle anyway, because the writers and producers would not want to be fined by the FCC for broadcasting the aforementioned expletive. So the only thing we can do is to ask Sussman for confirmation. -- Astrophysicophile ^talk 08:14, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Vulcan word

Kroyka! = Daro! -- 74.10.198.102 20:12, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Two things. One, do you have a source? Two, which of those words is English, because I honestly don't understand either. --OuroborosCobra ^talk 20:36, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Yiddish in-joke?

Saavik wimish. Kup-stariben? ("I am Saavik. Can you speak?") sounds very close to "Saavik bin ish. Kunst du reyden?" which is Yiddish for the English translation. Jewish Themes in Star Trek by Yonassan Gershom references it on page 201 where he states: "When Saavik speaks to the re-generated Spock during the ice storm on the Genesis planet, she uses Yiddish! It's spoken very quickly and somewhat distorted, but if you listen very carefully, she says, “Saavik bin ich. Kunst du reden?” -- which the subtitle correctly translates, “I am Saavik. Can you speak?” Trekker Kate Gladstone, who first alerted me to this reference, writes, “The first time I saw Star Trek III in a theater -- in a Jewish neighborhood in Brooklyn -- quite a few of the fans chuckled and smiled to each other when Saavik spoke these lines.” Vulcan613 22:20, 29 March 2009 (UTC)Vulcan613

Why are you telling us this here? You already put it in the article... --OuroborosCobra ^talk 22:31, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

To give you the source ref, since it is from a non-canonical book and, as I read the guidelines, we are not supposed to cite non-canonical pubs in the main article. Of course, anybody who speaks Yiddish could probably affirm it but I thought some people might want a published ref. Vulcan613 14:26, 30 March 2009 (UTC)rooster613

[edit] Missing words ENT: "Fusion"

This page is missing the words "V'tosh ka'tur", "Vulcans without logic", from ENT: "Fusion". -- Astrophysicophile ^talk 23:30, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

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