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• Archive: 2009

Contents 1 Multiple edits 2 Edit summaries 3 Data Transfers 4 Image 5 Inuse 6 Starship sidebar 7 Of Sidebars and Actors 8 Remus 9 2390s Starfleet insignia 10 Thanks 11 Martok Link 12 Vandalism 13 Edit template 14 Edits 15 Categories 16 Starfleet casualties 17 PNAs 18 Disambig stuff 19 Edit Hints 20 Chakotay 21 MB vs. MA 22 Borg 23 Delete 24 Picard Revert 25 Production notes 26 Casualties 27 Orphaning images 28 Speedy deletions

[edit] Multiple edits

Please make use of the Preview button before you save your edits, so you can see what it looks like beforehand. This prevents the Recent Changes page from being clogged and reduces the database load. Thanks.--31dot 23:37, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

My bad. Will do.Archduk3 23:44, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Starfleet casualties‎‎ has become to big to edit in one go, doing it by section now. So sorry if my copious amount of edits to this page is getting ridiculous. Archduk3 03:14, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Edit summaries

When editing... especially many pages with small edits in a short period of time, it's nice to use the "Summary" line. Put a brief mention of what you're doing. As in... "adding MU tag" or something. -- sulfur 19:11, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Will do. - Archduk3 19:11, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Data Transfers

Usually when large amounts of text are moved from one page to another, the proper course of action is to request a merge that way it preserves the history of the page. An admin will probably come by and do it anyway. — Morder 23:02, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

I created the Mirror universe casualties page to try and reduce the size of the Starfleet casualties page since it has gotten way to unwieldy for it's own good. I wasn't sure what the proper channels were to go about getting it made, so I just did it. I'm sorry if I just made some work for someone else to clean up. - Archduk3 23:08, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

I've been told the same thing when I started editing a while back. :) Just comes with the territory. — Morder 23:09, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Looks like you're the only supplier of information for the Mirror universe casualties (according to Shran). Bravo on your dedication to the topic. :) — Morder 23:29, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

I have spent way too much time in the casualties pages lately not to be considered a coroner of sorts. :) - Archduk3 23:32, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Image

Just to let you know the preferred format on this site is .jpg. :) (makes it easier if all images are in the same format) — Morder 23:49, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

I have no idea how to make a .jpg without a background, which is why I'm using the .png. - Archduk3 23:51, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Heh, no problem. That's why I specified "preferred". :) (and, no, it's not possible) — Morder 23:52, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Inuse

In case you don't know about it you can use the template {{inuse}} on articles which you are working on which might take a while to complete. — Morder 20:47, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

I saw that one, but since I'm trying to find a better way to present the information on the page, I'm not actually editing right now, the note was to explain the incomplete look. Though now that I think about it, that really is what that template is for isn't? - Archduk3 20:50, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Heh, yup. It's just to warn others *not* to edit it while you're editing it. Also, don't forget to remove it when you're done. :) — Morder 20:51, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Starship sidebar

I'm going to revert your changes made to the template as you seem to have broke it...if you're going to change things like that I would recommend that you first create a template in your own user space and test it there rather than change an established template. Also you might want to bring up your changes to the talk page first You asked for extra Images but now you're also adding an assignment patch...If you need help in creating a template in your own user space let me know and i'll help you out. — Morder (talk) 09:10, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure what happened there. I just added the code from the Starship Class template, though I might have missed something in the copy paste. Or I can't change the Logo caption. Any ideas on how to get it working? - Archduk3 09:17, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Off-hand, no. But there's a great way to test it User:Archduk3/Sidebar starship. Create that page and add your code (just view an old revision to get your stuff back) then create another page like User:Archduk3/Sandbox and add the template but instead of {{Sidebar starship...}} use this {{User:Archduk3/Sidebar starship...}} and you'll be able to test your changes as much as you want until you get it perfect :) — Morder (talk) 09:23, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, will do. - Archduk3 09:26, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Ok, it works now, but the Category got removed in there somewhere, even though the code for the category is still in there. Now how do I delete the sidebar page I made? - Archduk3 10:27, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Of Sidebars and Actors

Hey there. As I remarked in my edit summary on Nella Daren‎‎, please don't remove notes stating "X was played by Y" when you add a sidebar. The sidebar is meant to summarise/supplement information in the article, not replace it. Thanks, – Cleanse 04:53, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Fair enough. - Archduk3 06:09, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Remus

Thanks, I didn't see the additional note. — Morder (talk) 21:37, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Could you give me a link to the discussion on that, I'm going to leave a note on the talk page about it, since I thought it was odd that there was nothing there. - Archduk3 21:39, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

It's already on the talk page. — Morder (talk) 21:40, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

I lied...hold on :) — Morder (talk) 21:40, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

"shockwave could have been in a different orbital plane than remus was in at the time - speculation anyway" - that was the reason, which is true. If you want to add it to the talk page - you can use the Praxis explosion as an example. Quite simply, we don't know the shape of the shockwave of the exploded star and therefore it's possible that Remus wasn't destroyed and speculation either way - so, if we don't know - we leave it blank :) — Morder (talk) 21:43, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] 2390s Starfleet insignia

You mention yourself as having made this image. I was wondering if you could share a "raw" format image (PSD, whatever you used) in the hopes of fixing it up a little, since there's some really ugly aliasing, particularly noticeable on the bottom diagonal edges of the gold quadrilaterals and on the top edges of the delta. JavenGant 00:36, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

I've been working on that, the background is cleaned up, but the delta could still use some work, if you have a way for me to get you the file, since the photobucket dislikes .psd - Archduk3 00:43, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

My e-mail address begins twwinwood, and I'm on Gmail, so you should be able to finish it off. JavenGant 03:50, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks

I just came back to finish. :) — Morder (talk) 01:08, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

No prob, you admins seem to be busier than normal recently, so the rest of us should pick up some of that slack. - Archduk3:talk 01:12, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Martok Link

Why'd you delete the expanded universe links that I introduced? RicoRichmond 10:39, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

See Memory Alpha:Pages for deletion/Template:Stexpanded. The admin resolution isn't that far off. - Archduk3:talk 10:42, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Vandalism

Don't hide from the truth. – The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.181.198.188 (talk • contribs) .

[edit] Edit template

I think it needs to be taken one step further than providing a general template for any and every edit. — Morder (talk) 06:45, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

And yes, I'm working on something similar. — Morder (talk) 06:45, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

I'm just bored and ignoring my to do list. I do enjoy making these things though. - Archduk3:talk 06:56, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm bored as well. I have important projects to finish but I'm being distracted by this site. :) — Morder (talk) 06:58, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Those are way better then mine, the names are a bit long though. - Archduk3:talk 11:22, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Well, I figured we needed one tailored for each common faux pas. With regards to the name I discussed it with others but they're descriptive enough to be at least a bit memorable for those of us that need to use them. Though if you have a better name, please, let me know... :) — Morder (talk) 11:25, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

I would just drop the edithint part, I don't think any other templates are using any of those names. - Archduk3:talk 11:27, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

...or shorten it to EH-(name) or just E-(name). Just typing out loud. - Archduk3:talk 11:34, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Might be a good idea. Could you bring it up on Forum:New Edit hints? :) Also suggest any new templates I missed. — Morder (talk) 11:37, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Edits

Congrats. I noticed you updated your user page. Not sure if you know so I'll throw it out. Your current edit count: 2,968 (You can put this on your userpage instead) :) — Morder (talk) 13:52, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Categories

You should add a sortkey to those cats you just added. the cat [[Category:Memory Alpha maintenance templates]] on {{Pna-cite}} would become [[Category:Memory Alpha maintenance templates|pna-cite]] that way they're ordered alphabetically. :) — Morder (talk) 22:13, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

I have no idea how to do that, or that it could even be done. - Archduk3:talk 22:15, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

That's why I provided an example. I've italicized the addition - though if you want I can take care of it :) — Morder (talk) 22:17, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

If you could, and I'll take a look at what you did. (visual learner, aka, copy/paste) - Archduk3:talk 22:19, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Will do. I don't like people interrupting my little projects and I didn't want to do the same to you...I'll do a few. :) — Morder (talk) 22:22, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

I see what you did, though I still have no idea what it did, as I only see one category listed at the bottom of the page, or where there two before? - Archduk3:talk 22:39, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Just got it. - Archduk3:talk 22:39, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, it just sorts them on the category page. That way they're sorted by name instead of all together under the T's :) — Morder (talk)

I'll finish the rest that were in Maintenance, though when I was done, I was going to suggest a new category or two to fit the rest, if needed. - Archduk3:talk 22:46, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

I'm not convinced that ship name format templates are "maintenance" templates. Maintenance suggests that something needs to be done as a result. Might be an idea to sit down and think about how to categorize them rather than arbitrarily adding everything. -- sulfur 15:03, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Also note that by adding a second <noinclude> section to the end of those ship name templates, you actually broke them. All. I've reverted all of them for the time being. Go with the practice that a template can only have one noinclude section on it. -- sulfur 15:55, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

I really only have four choices, with a fifth suggested, to sort them, and the maintenance cat fit it best, if you have a better cat idea for this type of template, add it to Memory Alpha:Category suggestions. I'll make sure there is only one noinclude section in the future. - Archduk3:talk 15:59, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Just because category options are limited, doesn't mean that we have to put all of the templates into a category, especially if they don't fit too well. Regardless, a new sub-category might be something like "format templates." Or something to that effect. They could include any template that is used to make text formatting on a page simpler. -- sulfur 16:02, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

I'll use the basic template cat until a sub cat can be decided on. If you're going to add docs to the templates that broke, I can add the cat to the doc without risking the template. - Archduk3:talk 16:11, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

And by adding it to the /doc page, the doc is in the category, but not the template. You did realize that, right?  :) -- sulfur 12:54, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Yea, the whole point in adding the categories is so it's easier to find them, and thus make it easier to use them in articles. There are already a few templates that only have the doc categorized, since there is a warning on some not to add a cat. :) - Archduk3:talk 13:08, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Just because there already are some doesn't mean it makes sense, though. :) When putting the category on the /doc page, use "includeonly" instead of "noinclude", like in this example: [1]. -- Cid Highwind 16:24, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Will do. - Archduk3:talk 16:37, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Starfleet casualties

Hey. Could you please fix my last edit to the page. I don't know where the problem is. Thanks. – Tom 23:35, September 16, 2009 (UTC)

Seems like it was already done, feel free to mess around with the tables on my subpage. - Archduk3:talk 12:16, September 17, 2009 (UTC)

[edit] PNAs

Regarding Boq'ta, when you add a general PNA to a page it is usually a good idea to leave a note on the talk page explaining how the article can be improved. This helps later contributors in fixing the article. Thanks! – Cleanse 23:41, September 16, 2009 (UTC)

Sorry about that, I was going to watch the episode and fix it after, thinking the note on the edit would do until then, and things kinda snowballed on me after that. Watching the episode now, so I should have it fixed soon. - Archduk3:talk 12:16, September 17, 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Disambig stuff

Putting the name inside () on articles is only done when there is a disambiguation required. "Discovery" has none needed, so should not have been moved to "its proper name". -- sulfur 18:20, September 22, 2009 (UTC)

All the other pages were were using the same format, so I changed it without thinking too much about it, my bad. - Archduk3:talk 18:24, September 22, 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Edit Hints

When using them, use: {{SUBST:TheEditHint}}. That way, the text will be placed on the page, not the template. :) -- sulfur 03:00, September 23, 2009 (UTC)

K. - Archduk3:talk 03:12, September 23, 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Chakotay

• Although Chakotay was invariably referred to as "commander" during the run of this series, he wore what otherwise figures to be the provisional rank insignia of a lieutenant commander (two solid stripes, one hollow stripe). He is, however, listed as "Commander Chakotay" on the opening credits on every episode of the first three seasons, bar "Caretaker", where no character's rank is given except Janeway.

Simply put the provisional rank of lieutenant commander is an assumption. — Morder (talk) 05:25, September 30, 2009 (UTC)

I know, I read the whole thing on the page before making that change. It seems clear that he is a Lt. Cmdr in the first episode at the very least, so the article was correct before the change. - Archduk3:talk 05:36, September 30, 2009 (UTC)

But he was never called anything but Commander which still makes it an assumption that the pin make him a Lieutenant. (I really hate this whole issue...wish star trek would just make it finalized) :) — Morder (talk) 05:39, September 30, 2009 (UTC)

I know what you mean...I was trying to find a way to note the change in the background when you changed it back. I think it is clear he was given a rank of Lt. Cmdr in the first episode, as he was replacing a Lt. Cmdr. Some time between episode one and whatever episode was the one with the LCARS shot in it, he was bumped up to Cmdr...which could have been episode two for all we know. So I was going to add to the note before more madness broke out...sadly it seems I'm already infected. - Archduk3:talk 05:46, September 30, 2009 (UTC)

[edit] MB vs. MA

I just read your post on this page and though I'd clarify something since I used to think that MB should cover novels and what-not while MA stuck with only canon materials. But. Only the in-universe articles come from canon. We are also the wiki for licensed materials such as comics, novels and games however, material from those sources are not allowed in in-universe articles. — Morder (talk) 22:11, October 3, 2009 (UTC)

That makes far more sence now. - Archduk3:talk 14:31, October 4, 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Borg

The {{delete}} template is only used for clear violations such as copyvio or vandalism or anything similar. Though I know you thought it was a personal image it was an attempt by that user to provide a proper symbol for the borg. :) — Morder (talk) 02:00, October 16, 2009 (UTC)

After digging around I see what you mean. We should keep both, the new one for the Borg proper, renaming the file of course, and the old one for Lore's Borg. - Archduk3:talk

Agreed. Don't worry about it. I've made the mistake several times in my time here :) — Morder (talk) 02:32, October 16, 2009 (UTC)

I can upload the flag version again under a new file name, and I'll try and keep my stampedes through china shops to a minimum. :) - Archduk3:talk 02:37, October 16, 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Delete

If you can - please don't delete the actual content when adding the {{delete}} template. This allows us to still see the content there without having to view the history and make an immediate decision whether or not it qualifies for deletion :) — Morder (talk) 03:57, October 22, 2009 (UTC)

Will do next time. - Archduk3:talk 03:57, October 22, 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Picard Revert

Sorry I didn't notice you did it right after I posted it (thought it was much later). Anyway I wasn't blaming you about the standard because not very many people know but, at least when it comes to my undos like that I tend to put them on the talk page for all to see and I try not to do anything if it's something I shouldn't do :) We'll see how this all turns out but I know we've had the discussion before with an anon and it was decided then and I doubt that anything will change with those users but who knows? That's what makes wiki's interesting in that they can change...I may not like it but if it does change everyone's mind then that's just the way it is. I just hope it doesn't! :) — Morder (talk) 07:46, October 24, 2009 (UTC)

oh and have fun on your holiday. — Morder (talk) 07:47, October 24, 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. :) - Archduk3:talk 07:42, October 25, 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Production notes

Thanks for pointing that production notes are valid for dates to me because I had actually forgotten about it. Just to clarify my position: I have no problem with the dates I only have a problem with speculation used to arrive at a date. Also, original research is the same thing as speculation but entirely basing it on canon facts and using those facts to come to a conclusion. The conclusion is still speculative as someone else could come to a different conclusion based on those same facts. So essentially original research is speculation but more refined :) — Morder (talk) 22:39, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

We should have an addition added to the canon policy defining if, and what, research, if any, can be used; so as to avoid confusion later, and give us something to point to, since there doesn't seems to be anything specific on it now. I only say this since I know basic math is accepted, but pretty much everything past that isn't. As for the dates, I really want all user speculation removed from the system, since this is causing all of us way more trouble than it should be worth. Hopefully we can nail down the canon dates pretty quickly, since I'm sure there aren't all that many, and fill in the rest as needed with background info that can be cited, so if someone down the line has an issue with it, we can point then to the proper place to raise hell. Once that's done, we can all go back to arguing about sensible things, like when did Picard really lose his hair? :) - Archduk3:talk 22:59, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Casualties

Just out of curiosity and I haven't really checked. Are you only putting casualties of war or just any death? When I hear the word casualty I think someone was killed for a reason rather than someone who just died of old age or natural causes. — Morder (talk) 07:30, November 1, 2009 (UTC)

I'm listing casualties as defined at casualty report (KIA, MIA, and WIA). I don't think there are any "natural" deaths on the lists right now, since most of those are just assumed to have happened, and are never really talk about in canon. Though to be honest, I never really thought about it, or checked. The only guide right now is that members of Starfleet are never "considered" to be truly out of the service. - Archduk3:talk 07:38, November 1, 2009 (UTC)

Understood. Just curious - I saw Antos and really thought he just died of natural causes from a plasma explosion. I don't recall that he was targeted with the explosion or anything so I just figured he wasn't really a casualty in that regard though I guess it doesn't really matter :) — Morder (talk) 07:47, November 1, 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Orphaning images

Regarding your changes to Excelsior class: If you remove or orphan an image from an article, such as in this case File:USS Excelsior, aft.jpg, please be sure you do something with it, reuse it or post it for deletion so that it just doesn't float off into some state of limbo on the unused image list. Thanks. --Alan 14:02, November 20, 2009 (UTC)

I was going to use it in the article, I just needed to know if the MSDs I link to on the talk page were canon or not before. I see you added it pretty much where I was going to anyways, though I'll make a point to move them in the future instead of remove and forget because of shinny objects. - [Edited] Archduk3:talk 19:31, November 20, 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Speedy deletions

I'm always tempted to delete things that are blatantly non-canon, but immediate deletions have to meet this criteria, and just being non-canon doesn't count, for better or worse.--31dot 23:48, November 21, 2009 (UTC)

I was looking at #2 when I put that up, but it does seem like there could even be a merge with the game article now. I changed my vote on the deletion page as well. - Archduk3:talk 23:52, November 21, 2009 (UTC)