Talk: Vegetarian

Does replicated meat actually count as meat seeing as though it never actually came from an animal? In "Lonely Among Us" Riker comments that the federation no longer enslaves animals for food. I got the impression that he meant that they no longer actually take meat from animals and cook it and they only eat replicated meat. Would that make someone a vegetarian? Jdvelasc 19:56, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Maybe if all the food they were eating was resequenced vegetables, and not resequenced proteins. --Alan del Beccio 02:55, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Further to the above point regarding Riker's comments in "Lonely Among Us", I agree that this strongly implies that the federation, or at least humans, is vegetarian. Surely this warrants inclusion in the Vegetarian entry. In response to the point about vegetables vs. proteins, unless the products of animals are at all involved in the replication process, we should be forced to call the federation (or merely humans) vegetarian. Unless someone can provide compelling evidence to the contrary... Amrubie 20:06, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

From an ethical standpoint, that, considering the Vulcans' history and philosophy, applies here, replicated meat, no matter how similar to meat from animals, would be alright. It makes sense though for Vulcans to even reject replicated meat because of meat's characteristical taste that they are not used to.

Riker's comment, taken literally, would mean 'no enslavement', so fishing could still be practiced. It would not take the sea animals' freedom, so until they are caught and killed, they would live a (potentially) happy life.

Even if the whole of the federation ate only things from the replicator, it would not be a vegetarian diet. Vegetarian means no eating of meat. Replicated meat is still meat. This means that with replicator technology you no longer have to be a vegetarian to fulfill the ethical aspect of vegetarianism. The same applies to vegans. For nutritional reasons, though, in every case you would still reject meat or animal products, even from a replicator. A 'nutritional vegetarian' could decide to still eat fish because of the valuable nutrients in it and the major differences to land-based meat, although fish nutrients can also be replaced by a 'true' vegetarian diet, so this would probably be a bit inconsistent.

By the way... Currently there are experiments with the aim to create meat in vitro.--217.85.210.210 14:34, December 18, 2009 (UTC)

Vegan Vulcans?

I seem to remember on the Enterprise episode Carpenter Street, that when they're at the drive-through food place, T'Pol asks if the food contains animal products or something like that... that implied to me that Vulcans are actually vegan, rather than vegetarian. Can anyone shed some light on the matter? It's been a while since I saw the episode, so I could be mistaken.

I'm sure I've heard some other vegan-like references, because I always thought that most Vulcans were vegan.

I think that most humans probably aren't vegetarian or vegan however, because Harry Kim drinks a nectar that contains meat in Workforce (Part 1), and doesn't seem morally shocked. Most do eat replicated meat, but in Benjamin Sisko's father's restaurant, doesn't he serve only fresh grown food and seafood? 86.4.76.91 23:50, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

Nemoy who plays Spock is a vegetarian.

Yes t'pol is a vegetarian in the first season the cook is confused how to cook her food, offering several pieces of celery.

I think what we can assume happened is the Federation adopted the ethical diet of the Vulcans, implied by Rikers statement "the federation non longer enslaves animals for food". The implication is that the Federations standards of protecting life, extends to food animals. I meeting life forms through out the galaxy of various intelligences we can assume the change came some time between TOS and TNG.

Any sources on TOS, the crew eating meats?

Proteins come from both animal and vegetable sources, there is no need to use animal sources for protein, therefor I assume the replicates use plant based, or possibly fungus based materials. Not sure.

It's safe to assume T'pol eats a vegan diet, as its considered to be ethical. Obtaining milk involves "enslaving" cows.

I would assume Star Fleet personal eat what is given on diplomacy missions, be it meat, veggie or other. – The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.104.216.137.

Tuvok

Can anyone verify that last edit saying Tuvok is not a vegetarian? -- ME47 Diskussion - 47 - Andromeda Wiki 09:04, August 15, 2016 (UTC)

Afaik, it's merely speculative. The speculation is apparently based on the fact Tuvok orders a chilli burrito in "Future's End, Part II", without specifying vegetarian chilli. --Defiant (talk) 09:26, August 15, 2016 (UTC)

Having noticed VOY: "Flashback" is cited for this claim in the article, I've looked up more info on that particular case, and it's apparently because he eats eggs in that episode. By some definitions (depends on culture and personal opinion), that would indeed class Tuvok as non-vegetarian. I personally think it just means he's not vegan, however. --Defiant (talk) 09:34, August 15, 2016 (UTC)

Eggs are vegetarian, but not vegan, you are right. I would take that sentence out of the article, it doesn't prove anything -- ME47 Diskussion - 47 - Andromeda Wiki 10:26, August 15, 2016 (UTC)

As I've attempted to explain, there is no "right" in this sort of situation, as it depends on personal belief. I've rewritten the sentence, though. --Defiant (talk) 10:38, August 15, 2016 (UTC)

There is an unambiguous definition on wikipedia, this is not about religion or personal attitude -- ME47 Diskussion - 47 - Andromeda Wiki 10:44, August 15, 2016 (UTC)

Sorry, but you're wrong about that. I consulted Wikipedia before rewriting the Tuvok info in this article, but definitely found it quite ambigious, especially as the site explains, on a case by case basis, which vegetarian diets exclude eggs and which include them. So, that's certainly not a straightforward answer as to whether eggs are vegetarian or not. --Defiant (talk) 15:50, August 15, 2016 (UTC)

if you say so... -- ME47 Diskussion - 47 - Andromeda Wiki 21:28, August 15, 2016 (UTC)

Would have to fairly strongly agree with ME47 here. You've got to understand that any diet that excludes meat (all the way to veganism or even only ever eating potato chips) would technically be vegetarian no matter what else it forbids, simply by virtue of excluding meat. If wikipedia mentions diets that are vegetarian and don't include eggs, it merely means to say that one of the characteristics of that diet is that it's vegetarian, not that if someone identifies themselves as vegetarian you are to assume that they possibly don't eat eggs. And if the word vegetarian is in their name, that doesn't mean it's a style of "being a vegetarian", but typically is a compound term trying to indicate the diet is defined by excluding meat + excluding something else. Capricorn (talk) 11:47, August 16, 2016 (UTC)

I fairly strongly disagree; if someone said they're vegetarian, it would be right to assume they might not eat eggs. To do otherwise would be to act overly judgmental (at least imo). --Defiant (talk) 12:26, August 16, 2016 (UTC)

I double check what my vegetarian guests do or do not eat too. But that's more because people jump on food trends without always knowing what they are talking about than because vegetarianism can mean more then one thing. The definition of vegetarianism really is not controversial, people just tend to use the word when to fully explain what they don't eat they need another one. And so, the statement that some definitions of vegetarianism forbid eggs is still wrong. (rather, some diets that forbid eggs happen to be vegetarian in nature). -- Capricorn (talk) 13:32, August 16, 2016 (UTC)

Spock quote; reorganized

I gave the page some sections, dividing it by species.

I also deleted the sentence with the Spock quote about death, because I believe it contains original research It used to read:

Though a vegetarian diet might be seen as a more moral choice (as opposed to eating slaughtered meat), it was once noted by Spock that, as plants are living organisms, vegetarians and meat-eaters alike feed on death. (TOS: "Wolf in the Fold")

I don't think it's necessary to the article. --JasonDanielBoxer (talk) 22:37, March 17, 2019 (UTC)

You obviously have no idea how this wiki works. When someone makes reference to a term we are to include the reference on the article page with the corresponding citation. Spock clearly stated what was said, minus the hippy dippy stuff, so the reference in one form or another should be in the article. --Alan (talk) 23:01, March 17, 2019 (UTC)

I appreciate the reply, as I hadn't known that this was the policy of the site.

I think your removal of the editorializing helps mitigate the issue I was raising, as it now reads as less of a "rebuttal" to the ethics of vegetarianism. I'm correcting for a slight typo and moving the quote to the Vulcan section, as it is a reflection of the Vulcan perspective, not a general piece of information that we need in the intro paragraph.

I will say that the condescension of your tone in this response is doing you a disservice. I'm new to MA, but I bring extensive wiki-editing experience, and I'm eager to contribute - so eager, in fact, that I left a note on your talk page asking if I could help you with anything you were working on, which you neglected to respond to. I clearly know enough about how wiki's work to have tidied up this page in a useful way, and I also knew enough to post on this talk page about the edit I was making to avoid confusion/contention. I hope you'll choose to be more welcoming of new people in the future and not gloat that you know more about the site than they do.

--JasonDanielBoxer (talk) 23:19, March 17, 2019 (UTC)

Actually no, that was a generalized quote. It was during a discussion about Red Jack, not a Vulcan talking about Vulcan beliefs. --Alan (talk) 23:21, March 17, 2019 (UTC)

Okay - backing off. I disagree but respect your seniority. I appreciate your input and hope you'll consider what I've said about etiquette. By putting those auto-welcome messages on new users' talk pages (which is a tremendously encouraging gesture), you make yourself a representative of MA. Your interactions with junior editors should reflect that. --JasonDanielBoxer (talk) 23:27, March 17, 2019 (UTC)